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What's the Big Lesson in STXI?

Anticitizen

Anticitizen

Fleet Captain
Fleet Captain
Every TOS movie has given us a Big Idea or Big Lesson in its storytelling.

TMP taught us that raw information and logic without The Human Experience (tm) makes for a lonely, purposeless existence.

TWOK taught us about life, death, sacrifice, youth, aging, and the dangers of being blinded by revenge.

TSFS taught us that 'the needs of the few' can 'outweigh the needs of the many', and that cheating/breaking the rules can lead to downfall (David's use of protomatter).

TVH taught us to save the whales. Okay, it's a cheesy one, but there nonetheless :) More generally, take care of the environment.

TFF taught us that pain is a part of our being, gives us strength, makes us who we are. And, that a real god probably doesn't need a starship. :)

TUC taught us to look beyond our prejudices and differences in the quest for peace.

Part of essential Trek storytelling has always been The Big Lesson, from the earliest episodes of TOS onward.

What is the Big Idea or Big Lesson in STXI?
 
Anticitizen said:
TMP taught us that raw information and logic without The Human Experience (tm) makes for a lonely, purposeless existence.
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Oh, now there's a useful and profound insight.

If Trek's produced a more pretentious and ultimately philosophically empty story than ST:TMP it would be hard to say what it is...Threshold, maybe?
 
Embrace your heritage, I think.

Kirk joins Starfleet rather than wasting his life as a bum in Iowa (can't remember what Pike calls him), and Spock starts to accept the two halves of his personality.


There's probably a better way of putting it, I've been up since 2:30 this morning so my brain isn't working too well :)
 
While TMP's 'lesson' may have been weak, it did handle the theme well, IMO, by paralleling V'GR's quest with Spock's.
 
trampledamage said:
Embrace your heritage, I think. Kirk joins Starfleet rather than wasting his life as a bum in Iowa (can't remember what Pike calls him), and Spock starts to accept the two halves of his personality.
There's probably a better way of putting it, I've been up since 2:30 this morning so my brain isn't working too well :)
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How about: Follow your destiny.
 
I'm not interested in morality tales. They are generally not thought-provoking or compelling, but rather the opposite.

To the extent that Trek movies succeed (and many of them do not), it is not because they teach us some kind of big lesson. It is (in part) because they have compelling themes but do not try to be overly didactic. Confronting the inevitability of death is the central theme of TWOK, but the movie does not attempt to teach us about death (which would be ridiculous), but rather asks us to contemplate its reality and the meaning of life in the face of it.

A sci-fi action movie does not necessarily need this kind of depth to be enjoyable, but it is good if it is there, and it does make for a better, more durable film.

The only reasonably good Trek movie with something that might be seen as a Big Lesson is TVH, but this only works because the movie does not take itself or its lesson too seriously.

Trek XI does not have the thematic focus of TWOK. It does have an underlying, though somewhat jumbled, theme imo: the question of how do we deal with loss. Nero is driven mad by his loss. Spock tries to deny the reality of his grief. Kirk at first runs from the reality of his father's sacrifice, but later embraces his father's memory and overcomes his fear.
 
Don't be ashamed of who you are--embrace your destiny.

And also: having famous parents lets you get away with murder. ;)
 
I don't think those were "big lessons" in those movies so much as themes. Any good story has a theme. Any good story can be a morality play. It doesn't have to be profound or even subtle (Trek is rarely subtle).

I think this movie wanted to at least dabble with the idea of the forces of fate v. the degree to which one controls one's own destiny. I think it did a mixed job of it at best. It never seemed to want to come down on one side or the other. Was Kirk fated to be the captain of the Enterprise, or did he control the events that led him there? Coincidences and chance meetings lead one to believe the writers may have thought fate was a more powerful force than personal control. Is that a good message or not?
 
Trex XI had only one purpose:

[Humphrey Bogart]"This is going to be the start of a beautiful friendship..."[/Bogart] :D
 
Franklin said:
I think this movie wanted to at least dabble with the idea of the forces of fate v. the degree to which one controls one's own destiny. I think it did a mixed job of it at best. It never seemed to want to come down on one side or the other. Was Kirk fated to be the captain of the Enterprise, or did he control the events that led him there? Coincidences and chance meetings lead one to believe the writers may have thought fate was a more powerful force than personal control. Is that a good message or not?
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This was my observation well, and I think it's very interesting that they chose to go this route, especially since it's more in fashion to imply that one is in control of his or her own destiny. However, like Franklin points out, you almost get the feeling from the movie that fate has pretty strong ideas about what must happen and she's going to get her way, darn it.

It's an unexpected implication to make. I like it and hope it's a theme that's further explored. Destiny vs. free will is nothing new, but it's somewhat unusual for destiny to be given the upper hand.
 
Borgminister said:
Overcoming adversity; coming into one's own.

Facing your inner demons and defeating them.

That sort of thing.
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I definitely saw a strong "face your demons and defeat them" message. Kirk had been running from his Father's shadow all his life. Pike challenged him to embrace his Father's legacy and make his own way.


J.
 
Dennis said:
Anticitizen said:
TMP taught us that raw information and logic without The Human Experience (tm) makes for a lonely, purposeless existence.
Click to expand...

Oh, now there's a useful and profound insight.
Click to expand...

Indeed. I had a feeling once. It was nice. Didn't need two hours of colorless fiberglass and coveralls to tell me that.

Franklin said:
I don't think those were "big lessons" in those movies so much as themes. Any good story has a theme.
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Yes. Now if only I knew what the themes in Trek XI were.
 
This is, in my opinion, what is at the heart of the problems with Trek 2009 and to a lesser extent Voyager and Enterprise. Good Trek is always and has always been about some element of our humanity. This sometimes became an allegory but more often was a metaphore of some kind.

In addition the story hinges on a human decision that could easily be faced in the real world.

The Guardian on the Edge of Forever: It is not so much the time travel that is important as it is Kirk's sacrifice at the end.

Best of Both Worlds: Being a true leader is not about bravado or ambition, it is about what you do when faced with the hard choices.

Generations: We can't lose sight of what is really important in life when we are dedicated to our careers (in fact, many Picard stories dealt with this including the series finale--the theme of "the importance of family" is central to Picard's story.

First Contact: The need to maintain our sense of humanity and moral values when faced with a seemingly inhuman enemy (much of DS9 also dealt with this, and in fact, this is playing out in American politics today as President Obama seems to really believe in this).

Insurrection and Nemesis tried to touch upon serious themes but both failed in this regard.

Any GOOD Trek that has been produced can have the question, "what is the story about?" answered in terms that don't need references to space, aliens, or science fiction. What's more, you can readily and easily answer the question when it is put to you.

What is the Balance of Power ABOUT? Not a dog fight in space, it is about how racism constantly has to be struggled against and about how good leaders need to fight against their instincts.

What is Errand of Mercy ABOUT? An allegory for the cold war definitely, but it is also about how we can sometimes be more similar to our enemies than we like to admit and the need to fight against our baser natures.

A post in the TOS forum a few years ago linked to an article that listed the ten basic themes of the original series and by reading the list you can see how all good Trek from the movies and spin-offs relate back to those themes.

Now, whenever we talk about bad Trek, one of the first distinguishing factors is the lack of a proper human based theme. Threshold comes to mind immediately, as does a lot of the first two seasons of Enterprise.

The new Trek, unfortunately falls into this category as well. Plenty of pretty lights, and catch phrases galour, but what is the movie really about? It is not really ABOUT anything other than turning a profit and being a summer popcorn movie.
 
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