What would really happen in a voyager-like scenario?

[at Quark's]

So we have this mixed starfleet crew, consisting of about 3 quarters 'original starfleet' crew, and 1 quarter 'former maquis' members. And it seems that the decision that they form one starfleet crew is pretty much accepted by everyone, even though the decision seems to be made unilaterally by Janeway. Of course it helps that she commands the only ship left, but still

I was wondering what would happen in real life ? I know we cannot duplicate this scenario but just suppose there's a U.S. army or navy unit, cut off from the rest of the US for whatever reasons without any chance to re-establish contact within a few years. There's also a group of civilians 25% their size (albeit with some experience in naval matters), and they are forced to work together in order to survive -- let's say on a navy ship. Then, what would realistically happen (I know this isn't a realistic scenario but anyway)? Would the navy 'absorb' the civilians as seen on VOY ?

 

[Dukhat]

Realistically? They'd all be dead before they found a habitable planet.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Realistically? They'd all be dead before they found a habitable planet.

Yeah, but I think he's talking about magical realism where physics works the way it does in Star Trek but human beings act the way they do in the real world.

Realistically they would have used the Caretaker array to get themselves home and said screw the Ocampa.

 

[at Quark's]

Realistically? They'd all be dead before they found a habitable planet.

Yeah, but I think he's talking about magical realism where physics works the way it does in Star Trek but human beings act the way they do in the real world.

Realistically they would have used the Caretaker array to get themselves home and said screw the Ocampa.

Yeah, I'm not even interested in the background setting. For all I care, they are stranded somewhere on earth on a sea ship. The question I'm interested in, is whether navy culture / military culture/whatever culture in our world that would be the clostest analogue to starfleet / would demand that the civilians adapt to their chain of command, in case they were completely isolated from their own higher command structure for many years , and they had to work together on one vessel with said civilians to survive, or that they would be open to a more, erm, amalgamated solution.

 

[T'Girl]

I was wondering what would happen in real life ?

It very common for US Navy ships to sail with civilian contractors aboard, but nowhere near a quarter of the compliment. Were a Navy ship to find itself (somehow) desperately undermanned, and there were civilians aboard with the required skills to assist, I sure that the Captain would approach them and ask for their assistance.

I think it unlikely that he would insist that they join the US Navy as a part of they assistance. They would have the status of "contractors."

 

[Melakon]

. . .I know we cannot duplicate this scenario but just suppose there's a U.S. army or navy unit, cut off from the rest of the US for whatever reasons without any chance to re-establish contact within a few years. There's also a group of civilians 25% their size (albeit with some experience in naval matters), and they are forced to work together in order to survive -- let's say on a navy ship. Then, what would realistically happen (I know this isn't a realistic scenario but anyway)? Would the navy 'absorb' the civilians as seen on VOY ? . .

It's really not much different than the days of mandatory conscription, which ended in the United States during the 70s. In Voyager's case, there were no deferments available for the Maquis, it was either join our ship, or try and survive on your own when we drop you on a deserted planet. It's unlikely they'd be arrested or executed for refusal. Marooned, sure.

eta: It might have been an intense episode if there'd been a malcontent who had to be forcibly put off the ship. It would have been a good character study for Janeway making the decision.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

So we have this mixed starfleet crew, consisting of about 3 quarters 'original starfleet' crew, and 1 quarter 'former maquis' members. And it seems that the decision that they form one starfleet crew is pretty much accepted by everyone, even though the decision seems to be made unilaterally by Janeway. Of course it helps that she commands the only ship left, but still

I was wondering what would happen in real life ? I know we cannot duplicate this scenario but just suppose there's a U.S. army or navy unit, cut off from the rest of the US for whatever reasons without any chance to re-establish contact within a few years. There's also a group of civilians 25% their size (albeit with some experience in naval matters), and they are forced to work together in order to survive -- let's say on a navy ship. Then, what would realistically happen (I know this isn't a realistic scenario but anyway)? Would the navy 'absorb' the civilians as seen on VOY ?

First off they'd have to share the women, because it's still far from being one for one in these institutions...

 

[hux]

For the civilians to be analogous to the Maquis, they would have to be American Guerrilla fighters who would have contradictory objectives (and methods for meeting them) despite sharing cultural common ground

And if they genuinely believed they would be travelling for decades (which, to be fair, the Voyager crew never seemed to believe) then quite simply, there would be conflict

The civilians would get organised and start considering their options

 

[at Quark's]

For the civilians to be analogous to the Maquis, they would have to be American Guerrilla fighters who would have contradictory objectives (and methods for meeting them) despite sharing cultural common ground

I agree with that, they are certainly not your average civilians, as they had their own pseudo-military command structure.

And if they genuinely believed they would be travelling for decades (which, to be fair, the Voyager crew never seemed to believe) then quite simply, there would be conflict

I could partly understand that. In the first part of the series, they know there's another lifeform like the Caretaker that could send them home, and they have some near-hits in getting home. In the second part, they make some huge jumps. So the trust that they will make it home far quicker than those 70 years seems not entirely unjustified.

 

[Anwar]

Well, the thing is that the only real reason for the conflict was a political dispute 75 years away. Aside from that they had no real personal reasons to maintain conflict and it's normal they'd end up working together after a year or so.

For the kind of constant conflict, you'd need them to be US and Soviet soldiers trapped together in the 1960s.

 

[at Quark's]

For the kind of constant conflict, you'd need them to be US and Soviet soldiers trapped together in the 1960s.

Wouldn't that kind of conflict disappear too after some years, if there was no more government propaganda from both sides ?

 

[Anwar]

Well...yeah.

That's the thing, shows that run ENTIRELY on internal conflict...just can't last for more than a few seasons.

 

[Makarov]

Well in real life we aren't evolved people from the future whose primary goal in life is to better themselves.... that being said, I think in reality Captain Janeway would be spending a lot more effort just keeping the crew in line. There would be more crew vs crew action going on. They would still make it home, but the brig would be full a lot more of the time. Also the crew would not be as comfortable around Seven of Nine.

 

[hux]

I could partly understand that. In the first part of the series, they know there's another lifeform like the Caretaker that could send them home, and they have some near-hits in getting home. In the second part, they make some huge jumps. So the trust that they will make it home far quicker than those 70 years seems not entirely unjustified.

For me, that's always been the problem with Voyager. At no point does anyone on that ship really believe that they'll be in the Delta quadrant for anywhere near 70 years

From very early on, there's a palpable sense that.....it'll take a few years maybe (so if you're Maquis then meh....just put up with it)

Well, the thing is that the only real reason for the conflict was a political dispute 75 years away. Aside from that they had no real personal reasons to maintain conflict and it's normal they'd end up working together after a year or so.

Once the whole..."70 years to get home"....premise has been dropped, the conflict between them becomes....how best to get home (but that kind of conflict couldn't last too long)

 

[MacLeod]

Have to agree with hux, re: the crew thinking they may be trapped on the ship for seventy years. Sure they made some big jumps and they might have hoped it would take less than seventy years. But you plan for the worst and hope for the best.

 

[SiddFinch1]

The Skipper had a lot of trouble with Gilligan and the other civilians. But he was retired from the navy and outnumbered

 

[Orphalesion]

Call me a wide-eyed optimist but I doubt it would turn into the mutiny on the Bounty.

First of all the military unit, let's assume they are some sort of space navy, would still be a trained, disciplined military force, equipped with the skills and know how to survive in a crisis like that.
I am also optimistic enough to assume that their discipline and sense of duty would prevent them from turning into "Battle Star Galactica" there would be no "sharing of women" as others have suggested, no exploitation of the civilian portion of the crew and no abandoning any of them.
The officers would likely be intelligent enough to realize that splitting into squabbling factions would not help anybody, so they would keep their command structure intact but they would also add a civilian liaison, simply to give the civilians the feeling to be represented when decisions are made.

The civillians side would likely cause more trouble, 25% is a huge number and depending on the makeup of those 25% you'd likely find more than a few people who don't like the space navy, don't do well under a rigid structure of command or just plain don't like authority. And even among those smart enough to cooperate you'd find people of varying levels of discipline and usefulness. There would be likely huge problems with depression, fear and morale among the civilian crew as they find themselves stuck on this ship and possibly reduced to jobs far below their skill level (now I'm an English teacher, for instance, but the only use I would be in such a situation would be in a cleaning or cooking position, or posibly working the hydroponics garden if we have one)
And the civilians would likely be put into working positions, even if they aren't necessarily needed, since having that many people sitting around doing nothing during the whole journey and left alone with their fears, home-sickness and depression would NOT be a good idea. However putting the civilians to work in some positions would actually be a beneficial thing to them as it would not only give them something to focus on, but also a sense of accomplishment. If resources allow the work would likely be voluntary and sweetened with a sort of incentive like extended holodeck privileges or an extra replicator ration.
Over time things would stabilize.

Of course since it only takes a few choice idiots to ruin everything for everyone, a group among the civilians would likely find a reason (real o imagined) to mutiny over and try to stage a mutiny....which woud be easily shut down again, because they went up against trained professionals.
Still that mutiny would likely cost lives and again put a dent in the morale of many people ala "I thought you could keep us safe on this ship as long as we do as you say, and now you can't even do that?" leading to more tensions.

 

[Kobayshi Maru]

If we want to be realistic for a little while, we have to admit that no actual group of people would agree to stick with it (the discipline and all that) for a journey of SEVENTY YEARS and to keep moving on a straight line toward a goal seventy years away, ESPECIALLY if part of that crew are rogue people ( the maquis) used to rebel against the established order. What will likely happen is that after a while during which they will obey out of sheer habit, they'll mutiny (the hard way or in a soft manner by sending a representative to Janeway's ready room and demand that they search for a suitable world to settle and that's that. Only a minority would agree to continue like that on an open ended basis but they would be overwhelmed by the malcontents.

The whole premise of the show is not very believable.

 

[Anwar]

It's not like the Fleeters forced them to stay. When they went to that planet with people from the 20th century they offered them the choice to leave.

After that, everyone who stayed was there by choice and had little right to complain because it was their own decision.

 

[Guy Gardener]

In Swarm they murdered tens of thousands of aliens who were only trying to protect their home, to knock a year (and change) off their return trip.

40 corpses who said "No" to Janeway = 1 light year.

(In comparison, Ransom seems like a humanitarian.)

After all that blood, it didn't seem right to bitch about their life sentence.