Yes, they did. I was just positing on why they made the Jem'Hadar addicted.
Goran'agar (from "HIPPOCRATIC OATH", the one you were referring to) did question his loyalty, true. But if you notice, none of the others under his command were as happy about he changed. His Second even said to him that he'd rather die than be free of the White if it meant he'd be as weak as Goran'agar.
As for the times we see Jem'Hadar turn on their Vorta, they ultimately serve the Founders, not the Vorta. Sure, the Vorta are the middle men, but it's not quite the same. There's FAR less loyalty shown to them than the Founders.
No, shots taking days to reach their targets would not make sense in the Star Trek setting unless special situations such as (cloaked) FTL missiles launched at an immobile target over interstellar distances.
Based on dialogues and computer screens, tactical weapons ranges seem to be about one light second for energy weapons and several million km for torpedoes. The simplest way to depict that accurately is to show ships firing, then cut to the targets receiving fire. The Expanse proves it is anything but boring; it also happens in TOS and sporadically other parts of Trek.
Another good example of beyond-visual-range space combat:
In ST: Prodigy, micro torpedoes are sent far away into the R. Neutral Zone covering possibly AUs or light years.
Star Wars (space) battles are way more nonsensical, not just visually.
Which is the way combat was depicted in TOS.
The Ahwanee was the surviving vessell of Wolf 359 it escaped the battle with most survivors beamed aboard when it was the last ship standing. It was chased by the sphere ejected by the cube. The sphere was engaged by the Endeavour and Excalibur. When the cube was destroyed the sphere transwarped away leaving all three starfleet ships intact but taking with it everyone who was assimilated at 359 and anyone it could pluck from the follow up fight like Lt Wilkarah.
The Hood was not at 359.
The Hood was not at 359.
The Ahwanee was one the models used for the 359 graveyard (entirely illegible on screen of course) but it was reused for Picard's fleet in Redemption. So headcanon liberties have adjusted it slightly as the 1 ship that survived, makes more sense to me than it getting repaired and sent back into service.
Oh, I know all that. My question was what was the source for all that other ancillary information?
In my head canon - along with VOY's onscreen revelation - the only ship out of 40 to survive Wolf 359 was the Endeavour, unless the Captain survived and his ship was lost. But the episode seemed to indicate the ship itself made it out in (more or less) one piece.
Well wolf 359 and Excalibur assimaltees had to get to the Delta Quadrant and by 2368 so Seven could be with Marika. So the Excalibur fought the Borg. The captain of the Endeavour had a log entry from facing the Borg that Janeway. Nothing of course is to say it all happened at the same time but headcanon does what it wills.
It's possible that it was the saucer of the Ahwanee and the drive section of another ship, just like the Enterprise-D that we saw in Picard season 3.
That's the beauty of headcanon, we can all come up with so many possibilities.
Headcanon is a wonderful thing.
I'd like to think there are few ships in Trek history that have been in battles and had parts swapped and fitted from other ships like different saucers from the same class of ship being refitted to different drive sections.
I'd like to think there are few ships in Trek history that have been in battles and had parts swapped and fitted from other ships like different saucers from the same class of ship being refitted to different drive sections.
This is actually the part that I was questioning. Because I have never heard any of this mentioned on screen. Unless this is just your headcanon.
The Ahwahnee stuff is just background information and it was never said out loud on screen that it was at 359. Technically it's just on an infographic in Redemption too.
The Endeavour at some point fought the Borg prior to 2371 as its logs were mentioned in Scorpion.
Marika Wilkarah is in VOY Survival Instinct in 2368 and she mentions she was serving on the Excalibur when she was assimilated.
VOY also had multiple drones that were assimilated at 359 and had to get to the Delta somehow.
Excalibur and Endeavour fighting off the sphere to protect the escaping Ahwahnee is all just headcanon to fit the limited time frame together.
Ok. Not that I'm trying to pick on your headcanon, but what we actually know about the ships at Wolf 359 is:
1. Hanson stated that 40 starships had engaged the Borg.
2. Later, Satie states that 39 starships were lost.
Does that necessarily mean that one ship escaped? Should we take Hanson's quote that literally? Or was he just rounding off 39 to 40, and no ships survived? Other ships like the Endeavour and the Excalibur were never specifically referred to as ships that were present at the battle, just ships whose crew were assimilated or had encountered the Borg during possibly some other instance.
As for the Ahwahnee, it does appear later in the tachyon grid (albeit with a different registry number lower than what was printed on the kitbash), but was the intent really that it was supposed to be the same ship? If it was, then Okuda (who both labeled the kitbash with the 73620 registry and made the tachyon grid with the 71620 registry) certainly did not make that at all clear, since both the kitbash and the grid was barely seen on screen, and the ship was never mentioned in dialogue to have survived. To me it almost seems like an in-joke that wasn't meant to be taken seriously. And anyway, the Ahwahnee didn't technically escape anyway, since we see the ship damaged and adrift when the Enterprise-D arrives at the scene. So even if they later salvaged the ship and repaired it in time for it to serve in the tachyon grid, you can't really say that it survived by escaping the battle.
1. Hanson stated that 40 starships had engaged the Borg.
2. Later, Satie states that 39 starships were lost.
Does that necessarily mean that one ship escaped? Should we take Hanson's quote that literally? Or was he just rounding off 39 to 40, and no ships survived? Other ships like the Endeavour and the Excalibur were never specifically referred to as ships that were present at the battle, just ships whose crew were assimilated or had encountered the Borg during possibly some other instance.
As for the Ahwahnee, it does appear later in the tachyon grid (albeit with a different registry number lower than what was printed on the kitbash), but was the intent really that it was supposed to be the same ship? If it was, then Okuda (who both labeled the kitbash with the 73620 registry and made the tachyon grid with the 71620 registry) certainly did not make that at all clear, since both the kitbash and the grid was barely seen on screen, and the ship was never mentioned in dialogue to have survived. To me it almost seems like an in-joke that wasn't meant to be taken seriously. And anyway, the Ahwahnee didn't technically escape anyway, since we see the ship damaged and adrift when the Enterprise-D arrives at the scene. So even if they later salvaged the ship and repaired it in time for it to serve in the tachyon grid, you can't really say that it survived by escaping the battle.
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CetiAlphanEel
Guest
I don't have a personal headcanon because I'm not that invested I guess. I assume what's on screen is canon, though it's fun to nitpick about continuity violations and such
I'm the same, except it's because I am invested. There's no point in me speculating and making up my own stuff, because I only care about things that happened on screen.
That said I totally daydream up my own stories and characters when my brain is left unattended, but until Paramount sends me a cheque and actors start learning the lines it's just daydreams to me. I've got four season arcs roughly worked out so far...
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CetiAlphanEel
Guest
Actually yeah I agree with you there. Personally I like most of the ways canon has been handled I guess until fairly recently. In fact, the only head canon I guess id actually speculate about is alternate timelines and really more because I enjoy convolutedness lol
New head canon: the Franklin was the first starship constructed at the Warp 5 Complex, and though the engine topped out at Warp 4 and the vessel was commissioned with that smaller and slower propulsion system the ship was seen as a major hurdle to clear on the way to Enterprise NX-01, and thus gets to share some of the legacy of the Warp 5 Complex project.
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