What if 'Star Trek: Phase II' had actually been made?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Citiprime, Aug 28, 2022.

  1. Citiprime

    Citiprime Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I saw an interview where Ronald D. Moore talked about that in the alternate timeline of For All Mankind he had a news blurb indicating The Wrath of Khan occurs one year after it actually occurred in our timeline, because in the show's alternate timeline it's the first Star Trek movie. In For All Mankind's timeline, Star Trek: The Motion Picture was never made because Star Trek: Phase II became a reality. Although, if this version of The Wrath of Khan is based on a combo of TOS and Star Trek: Phase II, the movie could be totally different and it's possible that it's Xon or Will Decker that sacrifices themselves, instead of Spock.

    But what if Phase II had been made?
    • If Phase II had failed or the reaction had been lukewarm, it's doubtful Star Trek makes the jump to film, and the II-III-IV trilogy that cements the Star Trek films probably doesn't happen, and without the success of the movies Trek stays a cult franchise.
    • If Phase II had been successful, I wonder how much story material does the show burn through to the point that maybe The Next Generation era becomes completely different? And it's likely that Roddenberry would have had a much more influential hand in making any movie adaptations and the creative decisions therein and Star Trek II-III-IV are radically different or don't happen at all.
    • Either Xon or Decker become embraced by fans as Spock's replacement, or people hate the characters and they're the "Cousin Oliver" of Star Trek.
    • Ilia probably becomes a version of Counselor Troi in Phase II.
    • With Decker and Ilia probably being fleshed out over the course of a television series, it probably means that both Riker and Troi become much different characters if The Next Generation still happens down the line, since Riker and Troi are based on much of what had been fleshed out for Decker and Ilia.
     
  2. Admiral Archer

    Admiral Archer Captain Captain

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    1) What is "For All Mankind"? I've never heard of it before.

    2) I actually hope "Strange New Worlds" will lead to a modern "Phase II" show.

    In the case of 2), after the finale of "Strange New Worlds", do a time jump of somewhere around five to eight years in the timeline, take the concepts that would have been Phase II, and make it into a canon show with the younger actors from the new shows. You could do this one of two ways:

    -Do a couple seasons of flat out "Phase II", with the Enterprise being refitted to appear as the Phase II ship. Have Spock replaced by Xon and with Decker as first officer to Kirk (fitting Ilia in would be tricky since they hadn't seen each other in years as of TMP, so you'd have to pick either Decker or Ilia for the main cast) and have Chapel be the new Chief Medical Officer (leave Bones as retired after TOS; this will explain the whole "I hear Chapel's an MD now" line from TMP further). Then, have those first couple of seasons end with Xon accepting a transfer to another ship/starbase, start the third season where TMP left off and after a separate time jump of two or three years to explain the refit from Phase II to Movie-era Enterprise, where Spock and Bones rejoin the crew, and maybe have Chapel move on to Starfleet Medical or something. Run the show for the next five years, introduce the Monster Maroons and end it with Kirk leaving Starfleet. Have the show run for 7 seasons.

    -Do exactly as described above, but as future seasons of "Strange New Worlds", making it the longest running Star Trek show of all time.

    Either way, I wouldn't complain, and it would scratch an itch I've had for decades, by exploring the TOS crew for almost a full ten years of missing content.
     
  3. urbandefault

    urbandefault Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Looking at the set and costume design (typical 70s stuff), a Trek revival series might have lasted as long as BSG, Buck Rogers, etc. Star Trek would have died.

    Fans should consider themselves lucky that Paramount waffled on the TV thing and decided to do a "major motion picture."
     
  4. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Great, now I'm hungry for waffles. Do they have any low-carb ones?

    @urbandefault pretty much nails it; the show would have lasted a year or two, drown viewers in flashy disco*, and then snuff it just after Studio 54 had.



    * BSG has its own disco bar fluff and BRit25th's first season was about 90% trendy disco too... neither aged well, but of the two BSG did a better job at doing so.
     
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  5. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    If Phase II were made, there would be no movies. If the show lasted five years and went from 1978 to 1983, that would take it right passed Star Wars. If Paramount wanted to compete with Star Wars, they would've done it earlier (like what actually happened). In this scenario, they never tried to compete with Star Wars, Star Trek wouldn't establish itself as a film franchise, and there'd never be any reason to think Star Trek could be any more than a TV show. To say nothing about what would've happened if it went longer.

    I don't see TNG happening either. Paramount Network would've continued Phase II as long as they possibly could've, and would've run it into the ground if it lasted. So there wouldn't be any demand for a new series after Phase II ended.

    It's similar to what actually happened later on. Between syndication and UPN, they ran Star Trek into the ground, to the point where there wasn't any real demand for ENT by the time it premiered, and it ended up being the "one series too many" at the time. The only difference is: TNG and its spin-offs showed Star Trek on TV didn't need TOS characters. In a reality where Phase II exists, that wouldn't have been proven. So they'd just stick to the same series and, like I said, they'd run a TOS continuation like Phase II into the ground until everyone would've been sick of it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2022
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  6. Kor

    Kor Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    A drama series by Ronald D. Moore et al on Apple TV, based on an alternate history premise with the space race continuing in earnest after the USSR puts an astronaut on the moon first. It debuted in 2019.

    Kor
     
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  7. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Admiral

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    If it had been made, whether a success or failure, the content afterward would be different.
     
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  8. Orphalesion

    Orphalesion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah I don't think TNG would have existed, much less in the way it does in real life, if Phase II had been produced.
    The movies likely wouldn't have existed either.

    And without those two things creating 90s Trek who knows what would have happened to the franchise.

    Also looking at the planned episodes for Season 1 of Phase II...most of them sound terrible, with the only salvage ones being Kitumba, Devil's Due and maybe Deadlock/To Obtain the All
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2022
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  9. E-DUB

    E-DUB Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    TNG wouldn't have happened at all. DS9 (and maybe VOY) could have been done as spin-offs only with a 23rd century setting.

    Oh, and Paramount creates an entirely new and different SF property to be its marquee film series.
     
  10. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    As previously mentioned, had Phase II been made, there would have been no films, at least nothing theatrical. Perhaps a TV movie to end the series.

    As previously mentioned, there would have been no TNG, because Phase II would effectively have been TNG.

    That would have depended on whether Phase II was a success or not. As previously mentioned, most late-'70's-early-'80's sci fi shows barely got two seasons before they were canceled. Now, Phase II, being a Star Trek series, might have stood a better chance based on how positive the reaction was for TNG, despite its first two seasons being relatively lousy (YMMV).

    Considering that Riker and Troi were directly based on Decker and Ilia, it's not a far stretch to think that there would have been similarities. Of course, how similar they were would have been based on the actors portraying those characters. We have no clue who would have gotten the role for Decker, but apparently Persis Khambatta, from what I understand, couldn't really act all that well. Going along with this, if David Gautreaux had the same chops as Brent Spiner, he would have been able to overshadow Nimoy. But of course, Xon wasn't meant to be the same type of character as Data, or even Spock. So who knows.

    I personally would rather have had Phase II happen than TMP. Judging by what actually happened with TNG only eight years later, I think Phase II would have been a huge success. Everything after it would have been completely different though. Only in an alternate universe would we know if it would have been better or worse that what we got.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2022
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  11. Kor

    Kor Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Perhaps there would have been occasional TV movie reunions, like what happened with Gilligan's Island. It might have been a bit weird to see certain beloved original characters played by a different actor if the original actor didn't sign on.

    Kor
     
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  12. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    I'm now imagining Tina Louise as the new Yeoman Rand . . . :)
     
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  13. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, I think there would be no films. Phase II would, if successful, would have probably done what TNG did-generate a couple of spin offs to create an more expansive universe based off of the Star Trek brand.

    My personal two cents is that it could have led to some more creativity in terms of worldbuilding, while still utilizing the TOS cast in a more believable way, e.g. not being admirals in TNG.
     
  14. Richard S. Ta

    Richard S. Ta Commodore Commodore

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    I think Star Trek would have finally become something like Lost in Space or BSG. Something to reboot, rather than a sandbox to play in. If Phase 2 did alright, well, eventually they'd all get too old. Maybe we would have had a weird recast TOS movie in the late nineties and a really modernised version of TOS as a netflix series 20 years later. But I don't think the franchise would ever be able to move on from Kirk and so on.
     
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  15. drt

    drt Commodore Commodore

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    This is pretty similar to what I was thinking, which is for the most part how it goes for most properties, i.e. variations on the original theme than a grand continuing story.

    I'd guess that Phase II would have lasted 3-5 years, probably be a bit more whizbang with the Star Wars influence.

    Then mid-90s reboot movie as that was a popular trend, depending on how well it did, might have kicked off a new movie series - Tom Cruise is supposedly a Trekkie, in this timeline he may have played Captain Kirk instead of being in Mission Impossible.

    If the movies fizzle out by the early 2000s, I could see a new Captain Kirk streaming TV show appearing around the same time Discovery did, late 2010s.
     
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  16. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Admiral

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    That would be a major win in my book. :techman:
     
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  17. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Maybe. Trek still has a love affair with Kirk, so the idea of it not being able to move on feels about the same as where we are at right now in the franchise.

    Vs. the ability to create a franchise that either stops, and reboots (like many other franchises) or creates a generational style storytelling, like Doctor Who perhaps. What happened was TNG got locked in by holding on to "Gene's Vision" from Berman and creating a weird dichotomy between the films and the TV series. Trek is probably the strangest of the franchises out there because it is both willing to look forward, yet keeps a firm eye on the past, never committing fully the one idea over the other, save for rare occasions.
     
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  18. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Admiral

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    We need to send someone to the parallel universe where Star Trek II was made and have them bring back the complete series Blu-ray!
     
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  19. Vale

    Vale Guest

    One of the best shows on AppleTV+, co-created by Trek's own Ronald D Moore.
     
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  20. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I remember the book about Phase 2 that was released in the 90s speculating that if the series had happened, none of the movies or spin-offs would have. And while that may or may not have been true as of the 90s, I suspect a Star Trek reboot movie would have been attempted at some point in the 2000s, maybe even a reboot TV series in the late 2010s when we got Disco.
     
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