What if Search for Spock were more like Return of the Jedi?
- Thread starter sonak
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True, David was murdered, and in time Kirk was able saved Spock. However there was no deliberate sacrifice of David on Kirk's part, in order to obtain Spock.
If Kirk had stayed on Earth, and never venture to Genesis, David most likely would still have died by Kruge's order, or have been taken back to the Empire.
I don't mind STIII story at all. I think after what Spock did in STII it seems only right to spend a whole movie on it.
However two points:
1) totally agree it uses up a lot of the original cast's movies. I kind of wish that STIII was not right after. I did not like that right after STII the enterprise is destroyed, David is killed and Savak's story is dead ended. Though to be fair I kind of wish there was maybe some movies between STI and STII. It seems like STII is the beginning of the end of the TOS story. STV was a terrible idea and the rebounded a little with STVI but that almost seems like a set up to link the two stories and pass the torch.
2) ROTJ wasted huge amounts of time rescuing Han. What was their plan? Everyone get captured and we will break out. It took way to long and was confusing to me. Why not just break in and steal him in force? It takes away for the main story which was the dynamic with Luke and Vader. It even took a little time away from the Leia Han love story, I mean her resucing him was duh, she admitted to loving him in Empires. Did they think we forgot or something? It was iconic.
However two points:
1) totally agree it uses up a lot of the original cast's movies. I kind of wish that STIII was not right after. I did not like that right after STII the enterprise is destroyed, David is killed and Savak's story is dead ended. Though to be fair I kind of wish there was maybe some movies between STI and STII. It seems like STII is the beginning of the end of the TOS story. STV was a terrible idea and the rebounded a little with STVI but that almost seems like a set up to link the two stories and pass the torch.
2) ROTJ wasted huge amounts of time rescuing Han. What was their plan? Everyone get captured and we will break out. It took way to long and was confusing to me. Why not just break in and steal him in force? It takes away for the main story which was the dynamic with Luke and Vader. It even took a little time away from the Leia Han love story, I mean her resucing him was duh, she admitted to loving him in Empires. Did they think we forgot or something? It was iconic.
The thing is Return of the Jedi had a lot unfinished business from the Empire Strikes Back, not only saving Han, but Luke having to confront Vadar and the Emperor and the Rebels having to finally defeat the Empire and free the galaxy from its tyranny.
With Search for Spock, most of the unfinished business from Wrath of Khan revolved around Spock's demise. There were no other major threats from the previous movies that still had to dealt with, for example.
With Search for Spock, most of the unfinished business from Wrath of Khan revolved around Spock's demise. There were no other major threats from the previous movies that still had to dealt with, for example.
Your absolutely right. However, it seems that they had implanted a lot of minor material in STII that could have been explored in future movies that all died as a result of STIII's story. Like for example Savak's career, her Romulan heritage, a relationship with David. Kirk and David's relationship ect... All of these were lost in STIII.
So as much as STIII did tie up STII and does a great job of bring Spock back, I have to wonder what other stories we might have had Spock not died or stayed dead.
yup. It's interesting to consider where the movie series COULD have gone. Although Kirstie Alley's leaving might have had an impact on what they did with Saavik.
Yeah but those are just sub plots, those are not as huge plot threads, like the upcoming conflict between Luke and the Emperor, which was set up in the Empire Strikes Back. There were no hints that Saavik was a Romulan so it wasn't set up the same way the Emperor was in Empire strikes back. To really explore that, you would have had to introduce a new Romulan villain who wasn't set up in the previous films. Sure they could explored Kirk and son's relationship in a future, but that again is a sub plot rather then a main plot. Plus the death of Kirk's son was fairly major plot point in Star Trek VI.
See the thing is Empire strikes Back was set up more for a sequel then Wrath of Khan and really Search for Spock did deal with a lot of the plot threads from Wrath of Khan. They dealt with the Genesis planet, they had the Klingons trying to get the Genesis weapon, so there were plot elements there besides Spock's return. Really Search for Spock isn't a great film like Wrath of Khan, but its not god awful like Star Trek V. I would say Search for Spock was alright film, middle of the road for this franchise, but considering the high and lows this franchise has, that is not a bad thing.
I think if they hadn't spent an entire film on bringing Spock back, it really would have retroactively neutered the emotional resonance of TWOK.
Spock's death in TWOK warranted an entire film to undue. Warranted the ambiguity of not having Nimoy in the opening credits. Of the question of would he, or wouldn't he (even when we knew he would) come back?
Spock's death in TWOK warranted an entire film to undue. Warranted the ambiguity of not having Nimoy in the opening credits. Of the question of would he, or wouldn't he (even when we knew he would) come back?
It's an interesting thought.
I'm fairly content with TSFS though. The Enterprise destruction is deeply emotional when you consider how we've seen it right from 'The Cage' and all the history that has occured within its decks and IMO the film builds up to it in the right way.
It's a good film but I do agree, it missed the opportunity to be 'great' because the plot is a bit limited. There's only really one direction to head in.
I'm fairly content with TSFS though. The Enterprise destruction is deeply emotional when you consider how we've seen it right from 'The Cage' and all the history that has occured within its decks and IMO the film builds up to it in the right way.
It's a good film but I do agree, it missed the opportunity to be 'great' because the plot is a bit limited. There's only really one direction to head in.
I feel it was necessary. One, the Han matter had to be resolved no mattewr how it was accomplished. Two--the most important point--was to illustrate how much Luke grew in maturity and yes, his force powers since the conclusion of TESB. By setting that up, it naturally leads to the thought about how the Sith would deal with Luke, who was not the half reckless young soldier of the previous movie.
The Rebellion/Empire conflict was going to take co-center stage with the Luke arc, so Skywalker's growth had to be addressed early (and there was no intention of shooting another Dagobah training sequence, whichwould have been retread).
Good points about how it showed Luke's development. It also accomplished some more things:
It showed how tight-knit that group had become and how Han had become part of the family, and how his friends coming after him played a role in convincing him to be more active with the Rebels. It also gave Lando an opportunity right away in the movie to make up for his betrayal and give Han reason to start to forgive him. And it showed once again Han and Leia's developing and more serious relationship.
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