What if Maquis and Starfleet crew complement sizes had been reversed?

[at Quark's]

For the purposes of this scenario, suppose that for some reason, the Voyager crew sustained a lot more casualties the moment they were transported to the Delta Quadrant, let's say only about 40 survive it. Also let's assume that the Maquis crew was larger, let's say about 100 people. Rest of the Caretaker plot unfolds in the same way: the Maquis are forced to abandon their vessel and to take up shelter on Voyager.

Now, what happens next? The Maquis' numerical advantage is more than 2: 1, but they are on Janeway's ship. Would the Maquis still agree to serve under Janeway or would they demand that Chakotay becomes captain since he has the largest crew by far? Would Starfleet and Maquis even reach an agreement peacably to continue as one crew, or would the Maquis have fought to take over Voyager?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The Maquis would only have demanded Chakotay as their captain if he ordered them to. And it's clear that he wouldn't.

Chakotay was unforgiving against any Maquis attempts to mutiny (he even threatened to personally throw two of them in the brig) and I doubt that this would change even if his crew had outnumbered Janeway's.

 

[Prax]

We'd see the whole crew in leather, all the time.

 

[catshadowsi8]

We'd see the whole crew in leather, all the time.

I'm ok with that!

 

[Sophie74656]

I don't think their numbers mattered. They agreed to work together for the common goal of getting home. Since it was a Starfleet ship they agreed to be starfleet.

Even with their few numbers they had the first officer and chief engineer. They could have staged a mutiny if they wanted to

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

Even with their few numbers they had the first officer and chief engineer. They could have staged a mutiny if they wanted to

Not so sure about that. Maybe the Maquis had Chakotay and Torres but Starfleet can also count on many strengths:
- Janeway, a reckless Captain, ready to do everything to protect her crew/vessel, including initiate the ship's self-destruction if necessary = if Voyager is mobbed with no chance for her and her crew to regain control (Janeway 2.0 did it in Deadlock and we know that our Janeway is fully able to do it too) or lead a true and terrible vendetta towards those who would have personally betrayed her (what can only end by the death of her ennemies like Ransom even if she tried to save him from his deadly fate!) or an imprisonment in Voyager's brigs under a strict and continuous monitoring,... . In short, all what Chakotay always tried to avoid for him and his crew!;
- Tuvok the wiser companion who is not only a strategic thinker but able a fighter to life death too;
- Tom, the best pilot from his generation
- Harry, whose talents are equal to Torres in Engineering.
(And I'd add that they could rely on more 110-120 crew members, totally loyal to Janeway and experienced in the art of combat).

-> for my part, I remain convinced that the Maquis would have had no chance of success in their attempts of rebellion (that would be foolish from their part, by the way, to risk everything they have on board, which is pretty comfortable & pleasant, at least for Chakotay and B'Elena Torres, to lead an eventual mutiny for which there is no assurance for success in the long run, if not face a very angry and disappointed Janeway!
I'm pretty sure that Chakotay knew this and that's why he never ever tried to foment a rebellion/mutiny. And the events in Equinox, especially Janeway's harsh reaction towards Ransom and his Equinox crew, had to cool him off a lot. Indeed, better count Janeway, Voyager's captain, with him than against him, right?! Because if even if she took personally Ransom's betrayal, it was as a Starfleet capitain towars another Starfleet captain. About Chakotay, it would be still more personal because she considered him as a dear friend, maybe even a former potential lover but in the end, a member of her Voyager's family! Her revenge would be terrible!

 

[catshadowsi8]

Realistically if Chakotay organized a rebellion the first thing he would do is kill all the senior staff. So he takes the Commander role and, once their guard is down, he kills Janeway and Tuvok, then Kim and Paris (who he considered a traitor anyway). Chakotay is a very accomplished pilot in his own right and could Captain the vessel and pilot it at the same time as he did with the Val Jean. Extra crew means more to pick from to fill the positions suddenly vacant. Torres would still be chief engineer. Ayala, who seemed to be Chakotay's personal body guard, could be chief of security.

It could happen. Not really interested though.

 

[at Quark's]

Not so sure about that. Maybe the Maquis had Chakotay and Torres but Starfleet can also count on many strengths:
- Janeway, a reckless Captain, ready to do everything to protect her crew/vessel, including initiate the ship's self-destruction if necessary = if Voyager is mobbed with no chance for her and her crew to regain control (Janeway 2.0 did it in Deadlock and we know that our Janeway is fully able to do it too) or lead a true and terrible vendetta towards those who would have personally betrayed her (what can only end by the death of her ennemies like Ransom even if she tried to save him from his deadly fate!) or an imprisonment in Voyager's brigs under a strict and continuous monitoring,... . In short, all what Chakotay always tried to avoid for him and his crew!;
- Tuvok the wiser companion who is not only a strategic thinker but able a fighter to life death too;
- Tom, the best pilot from his generation
- Harry, whose talents are equal to Torres in Engineering.
(And I'd add that they could rely on more 110-120 crew members, totally loyal to Janeway and experienced in the art of combat).

-> for my part, I remain convinced that the Maquis would have had no chance of success in their attempts of rebellion (that would be foolish from their part, by the way, to risk everything they have on board, which is pretty comfortable & pleasant, at least for Chakotay and B'Elena Torres, to lead an eventual mutiny for which there is no assurance for success in the long run, if not face a very angry and disappointed Janeway!
I'm pretty sure that Chakotay knew this and that's why he never ever tried to foment a rebellion/mutiny. And the events in Equinox, especially Janeway's harsh reaction towards Ransom and his Equinox crew, had to cool him off a lot. Indeed, better count Janeway, Voyager's captain, with him than against him, right?! Because if even if she took personally Ransom's betrayal, it was as a Starfleet capitain towars another Starfleet captain. About Chakotay, it would be still more personal because she considered him as a dear friend, maybe even a former potential lover but in the end, a member of her Voyager's family! Her revenge would be terrible!

Generally, that was the feeling I had when starting this thread. Chakotay seems a nice enough guy, but the fact remains Janeway was sent to capture him and his crew, so at the very beginning at least, it seems almost impossible they would have trusted one another implicitly. Sure, Chakotay was against a rebellion, but do we know for sure he would have been against it had he had a 3:1 advantage? That's not to say that he would have thrown Janeway and the Starfleeters off the ship after that, since he seems cooperative and reasonable. At the very least, we know that Tuvok considered it a real risk even in the 'real' situation in which they were a minority (Worst case scenario), though he may not have been the best judge of character. Probably this mutual mistrust evaporated during the first season.

To pick on a detail, I don't know about Tom. At this point in the series, he's still just an inmate, an observer to be 'cut loose' after the mission ends, probably primarily motivated by self interest. Even though that would mean he would probably side with Starfleet in case of an insurrection (the Maquis would think he betrayed them), I still wouldn't let him out of my sight if I were Janeway. Trust would only come later.

 

[catshadowsi8]

The only reason the Marquis lost in Repression was because Tuvok was no longer brainwashed so he reprogrammed Chakotay. Imo, with a significant rebalance in the Maquis' favor regarding crew (and not trusting Tuvok) the rebellion could succeed as long as they eliminated any chance Janeway or the senior staff could interfere.

There is no way Janeway would agree to serve under Chakotay. She is too ingrained in Starfleet ideals. The minute Chakotay veered from her ideals, she would go ballistic. Look what happened in Scorpion. Even though Chakotay was right about the Borg turning on them once the war was won, she was still angry about it later. Equinox was even worse.

 

[Prax]

If Chakotay had so large a crew, would it have been appropriate to send Voyager to capture them? Unless they were just trying to nab Tuvok, and then had some reinforcements, i guess.

 

[catshadowsi8]

If Chakotay had so large a crew, would it have been appropriate to send Voyager to capture them? Unless they were just trying to nab Tuvok, and then had some reinforcements, i guess.

True. My impression was Janeway wanted to rescue her friend. Capturing Chakotay was a secondary objective if possible.

 

[at Quark's]

^

From Caretaker:

CHAKOTAY: Were you going to deliver us into their waiting hands, Vulcan?
TUVOK: My mission was to accumulate information on Maquis activities, and then deliver you into their waiting hands. That is correct.

While I can't argue that this proves it conclusively (after all, Tuvok is only stating his mission and he couldn't know they would come after him, so I take it the 'their' he talks about means Starfleet in general), I'd say the fact that Starfleet sends out an entire ship with a crew of about 150 probably means they hope to get more from that specific rescue mission than just a single man.

 

[catshadowsi8]

^

From Caretaker:


While I can't argue that this proves it conclusively (after all, Tuvok is only stating his mission and he couldn't know they would come after him, so I take it the 'their' he talks about means Starfleet in general), I'd say the fact that Starfleet sends out an entire ship with a crew of about 150 probably means they hope to get more from that specific rescue mission than just a single man.

When Janeway visits Paris at the penal colony he advises against going into the badlands. She extols the virtues of Voyager. Paris asks what is so important about this Maquis ship to which Janeway replies 'My chief of security was on board...undercover. He was suppose to report in twice during the last six days. He didn't .'She only mentions Chakotay as it relates to Paris being Maquis.

Then when she finally meets Chakotay and Tuvok she immediately says 'Its good to have you back Mr. Tuvok.'

Sounds like she went to get Tuvok. The Maquis are just a secondary, if possible, mission.

 

[Sophie74656]

If Chakotay had so large a crew, would it have been appropriate to send Voyager to capture them? Unless they were just trying to nab Tuvok, and then had some reinforcements, i guess.

They probably would still have sent Voyager because she was able to navigate the badlands. Other ships couldn't

 

[catshadowsi8]

They probably would still have sent Voyager because she was able to navigate the badlands. Other ships couldn't

Excellent point. Janeway actually says that to Paris at the penal colony when he says going into the badlands is a bad idea because Starfleet ships can't navigate that region of space. It also negates spending a larger Maquis ship. Chakotay deliberately steers into the badlands and then a plasma storm because the Val Jean is smaller than the cardassian ship. He even remarks the cardassians must be feeling particularily brave to come after them in a larger ship.

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

They probably would still have sent Voyager because she was able to navigate the badlands. Other ships couldn't

Absolutely. And according to Memory Alpha, "Voyager was one of the earliest Intrepid-class starships constructed and it featured a number of technological innovations that had become available in the 2370s: bio-neural circuitry, variable geometry warp nacelles, and an Emergency Medical Holographic program were only a few of Voyager's notable technical advancements. The vessel was also the first to test the class 9 warp drive in deep space". In short, Voyager's capacities were more extended (=superior) to face the bushings of the most at risk space areas, like the Badlands, than any other Starfleet vessels usually used for explorations.

As for Chakotay's choice to navigate in Badlands, I'd say that it was a very opportunist one because he perfectly knew that in this area, a few enemies would come looking for them, including Starfleet,... even if this didn't mean that the area was safe for them either, but well, he relied quite rightly on the modest size of the Val Jean which would allow him to go anywhere & a skillfully crew, who had nothing to lose.

As for Tuvok, it is clear that Janeway would have done everything possible to do and even beyond to find him wherever he was, to bring him safely on board. Not only as an active member of her crew (a captain worthy of that title, never abandons a member of her/his crew, even dead) but as a dear and loyal friend of hers too. And Janeway seems to be a very loyal person!

 

[Paradise City]

If Chakotay's ex-rank was Captain, there might be bigger problems. But Chakotay is still very Starfleet, he'd defer to KJ in the end.

 

[at Quark's]

^That would have been interesting too... or what if Chakotay would even have slightly outranked Janeway while he was in Starfleet? (Let's say she was a senior Commander by rank (just one step below Captain) and he a Captain before he quitted Starfleet and went Maquis)... what kind of dynamic would that have created?

 

[SpyOne]

If Chakotay's ex-rank was Captain, there might be bigger problems. But Chakotay is still very Starfleet, he'd defer to KJ in the end.

This.
Chakotay was the kind of a guy where he wouldn't just streal someone else's ship. He'd steal an enemy ship, but Starfleet isn't his enemy, they're... the opposition.
In my headcannon, the Maquis were fractious: Torres wouldn't follow Seska nor vice-versa. The only person who could lead a mutiny (and get them all to follow) is Chakotay, and he won't do it.

 

[Sophie74656]

This.
Chakotay was the kind of a guy where he wouldn't just streal someone else's ship. He'd steal an enemy ship, but Starfleet isn't his enemy, they're... the opposition.
In my headcannon, the Maquis were fractious: Torres wouldn't follow Seska nor vice-versa. The only person who could lead a mutiny (and get them all to follow) is Chakotay, and he won't do it.

Yes, this. I also don't think B'elanna would be interested in a mutiny but she has enough loyalty to chakotay that if he wanted to she would be on his side.

Though interesting drama...what if there was a chakotay led mutiny after season 4 would she side with chakotay or janeway since that's the side Tom would be on?