What Do You Think Really Happen with Religions in ST?
- Thread starter Paradon
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I think it's a time when the need to beat people over the head with religion is diminished--probably due the acceptance of multiple faiths, particularly extraterrestrial ones. That doesn't mean there aren't churches, temples, and mosques, though, but everyone probably just goes about doing their own thing, IMO...
What happened in the future if there were no religions? How do you think people cope and make choices in their lives? Do you think they practice some kind of Vulcan mind meld?
I'm not religious, I don't believe in god, or any other higher power, yet I have no difficulty 'coping' or 'making choices'. Why do you assume that people in the future would?
This said, why do you think there is no religion in the future? Why wouldn't there be? Sure, peoples faiths would have to adapt a bit on the discovery that we aren't alone in the universe, but it wouldn't eliminate it.
Ok, you're right. There probably would still be religions around, but I thought maybe it's not as prominent and as popular as they are today. That's what I meant.
And, to answer your question about why people need religions. I think sometime people tend to go too far using cold logic. I think part of being human is hoping and dreaming for a better life.... I think that's why all these stories of gods and goddesses and religions were created. I think it really helps people cope with situations that would be unbearable under normal circumstances, such as life and death situations, or even when we are trying to make the right choices in life. Let's face it! Doing the right thing is far more difficult than what a lot of people think. No one is perfect. I can attest to that! Trying making the right decisions under stress using cold logic and more often than not, someone is bound to get pissed off.... I think God is part of the human sub-consciousness, if you ask me.... Sometimes, a wishful thinking isn't so bad! We all can hope!
And, to answer your question about why people need religions. I think sometime people tend to go too far using cold logic. I think part of being human is hoping and dreaming for a better life.... I think that's why all these stories of gods and goddesses and religions were created. I think it really helps people cope with situations that would be unbearable under normal circumstances, such as life and death situations, or even when we are trying to make the right choices in life. Let's face it! Doing the right thing is far more difficult than what a lot of people think. No one is perfect. I can attest to that! Trying making the right decisions under stress using cold logic and more often than not, someone is bound to get pissed off....
I think God is part of the human sub-consciousness, if you ask me.... Sometimes, a wishful thinking isn't so bad! We all can hope!
It's been established that there's religion in the world of ST but it's not focused on. I clearly remember the final seasons of DS9 just being dedicated to Sisko the Bajorian Prophet. The Vulcans are displayed to have a very spiritual based society based on old traditions.
May not be the same as worship to a higher power, but there is spirituality in the world of ST.
May not be the same as worship to a higher power, but there is spirituality in the world of ST.
Chakotay had his Spirit Guides, which were part of his spirituality but I'm not sure if they were deities. I think his "Sky Spirits" were what he worshiped, but we found out they were simply forehead aliens from the Delta Quadrant!
Trying making the right decisions under stress using cold logic and more often than not, someone is bound to get pissed off....
I don't make decisions just based on logic though, I make them based on emotion and compassion as well. I like to think I'm capable enough of deciding what's right and whats wrong in a given situation, without having to ask "What would <insert diety here> do". I can think for myself, I don't think believing in a higher power would make any difference to that.
That's not quite the same thing. Religion exists, the Bajoran's believe in the prophets, Jem Hadar in the Founders, Klingons in Kahless.
What Star trek tends to do, is explain scientifically, what the things people believe in are. There are no GODS, but the religion still exists.
Trying making the right decisions under stress using cold logic and more often than not, someone is bound to get pissed off....
I don't make decisions just based on logic though, I make them based on emotion and compassion as well. I like to think I'm capable enough of deciding what's right and whats wrong in a given situation, without having to ask "What would <insert diety here> do". I can think for myself, I don't think believing in a higher power would make any difference to that.
People like to think that good always truimps over evil.... That's what God represents. It's a powerful metaphor for people.... That's how it manifest in people subconscious. I think Frederick Nechies, a German philosipher and pyschologist that said: ignoring your feelings, emotions, and desire is not good?
What do you mean its not the same thing? That's what i said -- it exists in Star Trek but its not a major focal point. The only time I ever saw religion take precedence in ST was in DS9.
The Bajorians do have "gods," they have the prophets. A group of super natural beings who have been proven to exist through their actions and interactions with natural beings.
Having others refer to their gods as nothing but wormhole aliens (beyond being extremely rude) doesn't seem to be slowing them down in terms of their faith and beliefs.
Captain Kirk by his own statements is a mono-theist.
Picard in (IIRC) Lonely Among Us, indicates that he believes in something that goes beyond just philosophy, but he also seems to have a problem with organized religion, which doesn't mean he isn't a man of faith ... but which faith?
(there was a long thread about this in the pro book section)
Starfleet is a professional organization and seems to take a "keep it in your room" approach to religion. Well, to human religions anyway. The reason why Trek steers clear of showing human religions is to not piss off sensitive fans. Religion exists in trek its just that characters practice it in their private time, in their own quarters, and don't flaunt it in public probably due to SF regulations. Bajorans seem to get a pass in this, though. See Ensign Ro.
As far as I can tell, the Star Trek universe is one in which science has finally proved conclusively that God DOES exist, as do the various deities of other religions and civilizations. The problem with this is, once God is real, God now has to act like a real thing and has to take on a set of definable qualities and characteristics that make some logical sense. Since by definition this means God was found to be neither omnipotent nor omniscient (and certainly not omnibenevolent) most humans most humans gave up faith and found something more meaningful to believe in. Culturally speaking, it's the equivalent of a little kid discovering that all this time Santa Claus was really just his fat uncle in a big red suit and that the presents were put there by his parents.
Various races have handled this discovery various ways:
- The Klingons decided their gods were more trouble than they were worth, hunted them down and killed them.
- The Bajorans continue to worship the prophets anyway on the off chance that they'll some day get off their non-corporeal asses and PROTECT them from something, some day, ever.
- The Ferengi worship personified manifestations of their own greed; it's a Ferengi thing.
- Betazoids worship chocolate
- Androids worship Linux (and pray for deliverance from Microsoft)
- Space probes worship human beings
- The Vorta worship the founders
- The Founders worship Odo
- Odo worships Kira
Various races have handled this discovery various ways:
- The Klingons decided their gods were more trouble than they were worth, hunted them down and killed them.
- The Bajorans continue to worship the prophets anyway on the off chance that they'll some day get off their non-corporeal asses and PROTECT them from something, some day, ever.
- The Ferengi worship personified manifestations of their own greed; it's a Ferengi thing.
- Betazoids worship chocolate
- Androids worship Linux (and pray for deliverance from Microsoft)
- Space probes worship human beings
- The Vorta worship the founders
- The Founders worship Odo
- Odo worships Kira
^ Frankly yes, which would probably explain why so few humans worship them anymore.
I think everybody has free will to do whatever they want.... That's God's given right. I don't think you can blame it on religions or other people if you did something seriously wrong. And, besides that, psychopathic people are going to kill people no matter what if they made up their mind about it. Look at Pol Pot from Cambodia.... That man has no religions, and he is one of the most hated man, probably the most hated person, in Southeast Asia.... i don't think any major religions condone that type of behavior.
Showing human religions would not have been a problem if we got to see a lot of different human cultures coexisting peacefully. That would've been a very nice example, actually, of something to aim for in real life.
The reason human religion was not shown was because Roddenberry was anti-religion.
In-universe, I tend to suspect something particular happened on Earth that embittered some people towards religion. I also tend to suspect that it is the one "acceptable form of prejudice" that still remains.
Only after Picard tried to prevent her from wearing her earring.
But maybe the Bajorans will help the Federation to find tolerance in this arena, at least towards aliens. Humans finding tolerance for themselves, though...that will take a lot more work.
Hmm. Does that make them atheists, or not?
A: Do you believe in God?
B: I used to.
A: But then you lost faith?
B: No, I killed Him.
I think one of the characteristics of a deity is that people worship Him. In the context of Star Trek, the Klingons worship Kahless, so even if Kahless had deities (whether ideas of metaphysical beings or Delta Quadrant tattoo people), the present Klingon deity is Kahless. So what the Klingons called "gods" were deities of a former generation instead of their present gods. It's sort of like Apollo (ahem, not from "Who Mourns for Adonis?") was a god of the ancient Greeks, but does anyone worship him nowadays? Probably so somewhere. But I don't think there's a major society that does. I don't think of Apollo as a god. I think of him as an ancient Greek god.
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