What do you think about the Red Squad?

[Kilana2]

I was always skeptical about the Red Squad, an elite cadre of cadets with special training and an arrogant attitude (feeling superior to their peers). I never understood why Nog wanted to become part of that elite. Wesley Crusher was always criticized for being to young to be on the bridge of the flagship and his intelligence wouldn't justify his honorable ranks given by Picard. At least, Wesley was given the opportunity to become more experienced. I think, Picard prefered to go into battle with his senior crew.

A bunch of elite cadets (but without experience) taking over a ship (the Valiant), going straigth ahead into a crisis situation/battle - we know what happened to them. The young captain even took pills to deal with the stress of command. Sending kids into battle is a mistake and the Red Squad concept questionable for me. Young people make mistakes and have to learn. They also nead experienced mentors. (I know they had mentors, but they were killed).

Accelerating the training of cadets to send them sooner into crisis situations has failed. Placing them on ships were they can profit from higher ranks is better IMO. Nog profited most by working with experienced people.

Kirk and Spock took a bunch of cadets on a training mission. Some died. But they had experienced personnel around them and appeared to be proud instead of arrogant.

What has become of the Red Squad after the Valiant incident?

 

[Melakon]

It made me feel like I was watching a 24th century version of 1984's Red Dawn.

 

[-Brett-]

These are college aged 18 - 22 year olds. Young, but not exactly "kids".

 

[Kilana2]

These are college aged 18 - 22 year olds. Young, but not exactly "kids".

From Picard's point of view they are "kids"

 

[DonIago]

I think I cheered (inwardly, at least) at the end of "Valiant".

I would have also thought an organization like Starfleet Academy, especially evolving from a civilization that went through things like the Eugenics Wars, would be past the point where they thought encouraging anyone to feel superior to their peers was a positive goal.

 

[Kilana2]

I think I cheered (inwardly, at least) at the end of "Valiant".

I would have also thought an organization like Starfleet Academy, especially evolving from a civilization that went through things like the Eugenics Wars, would be past the point where they thought encouraging anyone to feel superior to their peers was a positive goal.

How Seven of Nine would put it: Explain!

Sorry, haven't seen the second part of your post.

Their arrogance was their downfall. Nothing againt ambition. But I wasn't sorry for their fate.

 

[DonIago]

The Eugenics Wars was all about people believing they were superior to others and acting accordingly.

Red Squad wasn't much different from a pack of young Augments, at least in their beliefs.

 

[Kilana2]

A special status (e.g. a rank) is something you have to work hard for years. Cadets have to earn their status. It is alarming that Starfleet supports such an endeavor.

Next people who want to become members of Red Squad are Icheb and Naomi Wildman.

I hope Starfleet gave up on this project.

 

[ManOnTheWave]

It made me feel like I was watching a 24th century version of 1984's Red Dawn.

I also got a Taps vibe.

 

[Melakon]

I also got a Taps vibe.

Yeah, I forgot about Taps. Tom Cruise was a standout in one of his earliest films.

 

[Mage]

Forgot Red Squad.....

How stupid is Starfleet to assign a friggin warship like the Valiant to train a bunch of cadets???????? IN TIME OF WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go home Starfleet, you're drunk.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Nog was feeling like an outsider, of course he wanted a group membership as a status symbol.

Starfleet doesn't believe in encouraging kids to feel superior, but they do believe in privileges based on merit. Kids are going to see them as superior regardless of how much Starfleet discourages it.

 

[nx1701g]

Forgot Red Squad.....

How stupid is Starfleet to assign a friggin warship like the Valiant to train a bunch of cadets???????? IN TIME OF WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go home Starfleet, you're drunk.

It was not yet a time of war when they were launched though. During their circumnavigation of the Federation the war broke out and they were caught behind the enemy lines. Its possible they were even in that area when the Dominion first came to Cardassia. It's never specifically stated.

Personally I'm not a red squad fan. I liked them for a while but, thinking of their actions, they were treasonous in what they felt was the name of the Federation. The first time we saw them they sabotaged Earth's entire power grid and took it offline. Making matters worse the Cadet assigned to the duties (who came back later even) gloated about it.

Shame about the loss of the Valiant though.

 

[Kilana2]

Forgot Red Squad.....

How stupid is Starfleet to assign a friggin warship like the Valiant to train a bunch of cadets???????? IN TIME OF WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go home Starfleet, you're drunk.

It was not yet a time of war when they were launched though. During their circumnavigation of the Federation the war broke out and they were caught behind the enemy lines. Its possible they were even in that area when the Dominion first came to Cardassia. It's never specifically stated.

Personally I'm not a red squad fan. I liked them for a while but, thinking of their actions, they were treasonous in what they felt was the name of the Federation. The first time we saw them they sabotaged Earth's entire power grid and took it offline. Making matters worse the Cadet assigned to the duties (who came back later even) gloated about it.

Shame about the loss of the Valiant though.

It's the consequence of following orders blindly.

 

[Ithekro]

Might have been more fun to see old USS Republic (assumed to be the same one Kirk was on with Ben Finney) out there with a group of cadets trying to win the fight. They would be horribly outmatched with just a Jem'Hadar attack ship, much less some prototype battleship of colossal doom.

But if they had to make an updated Constitution-class bridge and effects, we the audiance might actually root for them just because they are in a Kirk era ship. It was much easier to just use the Defiant sets and redress the model as Valiant. Plus they wanted to show a Defiant being blown up to prove it wasn't invincible.

 

[DonIago]

I can't imagine rooting for them with the arrogance and cult mindset they exhibited.

 

[kkt]

I can't believe Starfleet's orders to them wouldn't cover what happened if all the commissioned officers were incapacitated. Like getting back in touch with Starfleet Command as soon as it was safe to do so, instead of remaining silent. Ah, well, anything to make the plot line work.

I also don't think it's healthy to set one group of cadets above another on a long-term basis. Sure Team A beats Team B in some exercise or other, but that shouldn't result in a permanent change in their squad. Part of the point of the service academies is creating loyalty to Starfleet, setting Red Squad apart hurts that.

 

[MacLeod]

Forgot Red Squad.....

How stupid is Starfleet to assign a friggin warship like the Valiant to train a bunch of cadets???????? IN TIME OF WAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go home Starfleet, you're drunk.

It was not yet a time of war when they were launched though. During their circumnavigation of the Federation the war broke out and they were caught behind the enemy lines. Its possible they were even in that area when the Dominion first came to Cardassia. It's never specifically stated.

Personally I'm not a red squad fan. I liked them for a while but, thinking of their actions, they were treasonous in what they felt was the name of the Federation. The first time we saw them they sabotaged Earth's entire power grid and took it offline. Making matters worse the Cadet assigned to the duties (who came back later even) gloated about it.

Shame about the loss of the Valiant though.

It's the consequence of following orders blindly.

But didn't they in the end disregard orders, which were to collect technical data on a new Dominion Battleship and return with that information. They decided to go for glory instead.

But the real shock aspect of it is, you would have thought Starflee would have learned the lessons of having a "elite" cadet squad after Nova Squad.

 

[Kilana2]

You can see the Red Squad cadet shivering in his boots in front of Leyton. They were forced to manipulate the network. They were convinced to do something good. In the end they would have supported Leyton's supposed military dictature. Sisko prevented that. They may have disregarded orders later on.
No surprise that Jake Sisko doesn't want to be "Starfleet".

 

[Ithekro]

I can't imagine rooting for them with the arrogance and cult mindset they exhibited.

Rooting for them, no. If it was the old USS Republic, I'd root for the ship. Even if they all died save for the three that made it out, I'd rather they manage to limp home with the old ship. Or at least enough of it to have Defiant tow her home. An old mid-23th Century Constitution? You bet I'd want to see her come though, with or without Red Squad.