What do you think about cloning?

[farmkid]

No, no, I'm not talking about human cloning. Here's and article by the BBC that started me thinking about starting this thread. Here's the summary: Cows are being cloned from cells taken from the carcasses of dead animals in the US. The reason is that after slaughter, an animal may be found to have superior meat characteristics. Of course it can't be reproduced at that point because (A) it's dead, and (B) although the article doesn't point it out, it's usually a steer, meaning it's a male that has been castrated at birth, so it couldn't reproduce anyway. Anyway, those cells are used for cloning and the clones are then used for reproduction. The article goes on to say that in the US, the FDA approved the sale of meat and milk from cloned animals, while in Europe, some lawmakers want to ban the practice. So, I'm wondering what you all think of this. What do you think of eating meat from cloned animals, or from the offspring of cloned animals? Do you think it's something to be worried about? When can we expect armies of cloned cows to overpower their human masters and take over the world?

Personally, I don't have a problem with it. Cloned animals sometimes have some differences from naturally produced animals, but those differences come from developmental problems, and don't effect the meat at all. Their offspring, however, are indistinguishable from other animals. I must disclose here that I work in a lab where we clone cows. In fact, I'm working with samples from Viagen (whose chief scientist used to work in my lab) and we collaborate with Brady Hicks, who was quoted in the article. I'm hardly an unbiased party here, so I'm curious what others have to say about it.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I don't have a problem with cloning either. Why would it make any difference to me, the consumer? As long as it tastes good (which it will) and is safe to eat (which I'm also sure it will be), then chow down.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Yeah, I don't see the problem. Cloning will lead us to a future where all our meat is grown in vats and we no longer have to use the absurdly inefficient process of raising, feeding, and slaughtering livestock.

 

[scotpens]

Yeah, I don't see the problem. Cloning will lead us to a future where all our meat is grown in vats and we no longer have to use the absurdly inefficient process of raising, feeding, and slaughtering livestock.

Well, at present, that still belongs in the same universe as teleportation and warp drive. So far, we can only clone whole animals, not pulsating masses of cow or chicken muscle tissue.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

pulsating masses of cow

Now there's a horror film for you.

 

[iguana_tonante]

Assuming it's reasonably safe and tastes good, I'm all for it.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Yeah, I don't see the problem. Cloning will lead us to a future where all our meat is grown in vats and we no longer have to use the absurdly inefficient process of raising, feeding, and slaughtering livestock.

Well, at present, that still belongs in the same universe as teleportation and warp drive. So far, we can only clone whole animals, not pulsating masses of cow or chicken muscle tissue.

I think "pulsating masses of cow tissue" are a lot closer than teleportation and warp drive. Lab-grown meat can already be done, it's just not commercially viable yet.

 

[STR]

^Agreed. I think "growing meat" is achievable in my lifetime. Warp drive, probably not, unless someone figures out some kind of shortcut that doesn't require turning the mass of Jupiter into pure energy. Teleportation...eh...that one has all of the complexity of cloning, building artificial lifeforms atom by atom, plus the mind bending physics of warp drive, with additional quirks thrown in at the quantum level.

If it's even possible, it will never be cost effective. Think about it, faster is always more expensive. You have to be a millionaire to be allowed the privilege of breaking the sound barrier. I can only imagine the cost in breaking the light barrier. Instant travel across the universe? Pfft. It could be invented tomorrow and I'd never get the privilege of seeing it used on someone else in person.

 

[JonathonWally]

I'm cool with it as long as I get my own Natalie Portman.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

I'm cool with it as long as I get my own Natalie Portman.

Only if she's naked and petrified.

 

[gturner]

I'm strongly against cloning food because historically it has led to bland, flavorless crap with an extended shelf-life and no choices.

There are over 7,500 varieties of apple, but because of cloning all you can find in the store is red delicious, golden delicious, granny smith, braeburn, gala, fuji, or cameo.

If the same happens to meat then all steaks will be the same - tasting like cardboard but able to survive three-months in your refrigerator. Once the nanny state FDA gets involved, limiting the amount of fat, cholesterol, and savory chemical compounds, you might as well eat a slab of processed ToFurkey.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

I'm strongly against cloning food because historically it has led to bland, flavorless crap with an extended shelf-life and no choices.

There are over 7,500 varieties of apple, but because of cloning all you can find in the store is red delicious, golden delicious, granny smith, braeburn, gala, fuji, or cameo.

If the same happens to meat then all steaks will be the same - tasting like cardboard but able to survive three-months in your refrigerator. Once the nanny state FDA gets involved, limiting the amount of fat, cholesterol, and savory chemical compounds, you might as well eat a slab of processed ToFurkey.

None of that made any sense at all.

 

[farmkid]

I'm strongly against cloning food because historically it has led to bland, flavorless crap with an extended shelf-life and no choices.

There are over 7,500 varieties of apple, but because of cloning all you can find in the store is red delicious, golden delicious, granny smith, braeburn, gala, fuji, or cameo.

If the same happens to meat then all steaks will be the same - tasting like cardboard but able to survive three-months in your refrigerator. Once the nanny state FDA gets involved, limiting the amount of fat, cholesterol, and savory chemical compounds, you might as well eat a slab of processed ToFurkey.

That's completely different. Many of the plants out there are clones because it's a very easy way to reproduce plants--you just take part of one plant and grow a new one from it. It's not exactly cloning, but you do end up with two plants that are genetically identical. That's more like twinning than anything else.

Animals are usually cloned by nuclear transfer. The DNA is removed from an egg, and replaced by the nucleus of a cell from the animal you want to clone. (There's a little more to it than that, but that's the basic idea.) The proteins in the egg then reprogram this new genetic material to a naive state and a new animal grows. It's a rather inefficient and expensive process. It's not something that would ever be used for routine reproduction, only to recover superior genetics (producing the best meat, not cardboard, for example) of animals that would be lost otherwise. I doubt you would ever eat meat from a clone, but instead be eating meat from the offspring of clones.

 

[Canadave]

pulsating masses of cow

Now there's a horror film for you.

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FavUpD_IjVY[/yt]

 

[farmkid]

^okay, that's bizarre.

 

[scotpens]

. . . Many of the plants out there are clones because it's a very easy way to reproduce plants--you just take part of one plant and grow a new one from it. It's not exactly cloning, but you do end up with two plants that are genetically identical. That's more like twinning than anything else.

Technically, growing plants by grafting or budding -- the way most commercial fruit trees and vines are propagated -- is a form of cloning, and it's been going on for thousands of years. There are wine grapes grown today that are exact genetic copies of grapes grown by the Romans two millennia ago.

Cloning animals, as the above poster pointed out, is much more complex and costly, and would likely be used to produce breeding stock. The animals that actually end up on our dinner plate would still be bred the old-fashioned way.

 

[JonathonWally]

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FavUpD_IjVY[/yt]

That's awesome!

 

[gturner]

. . . Many of the plants out there are clones because it's a very easy way to reproduce plants--you just take part of one plant and grow a new one from it. It's not exactly cloning, but you do end up with two plants that are genetically identical. That's more like twinning than anything else.

Technically, growing plants by grafting or budding -- the way most commercial fruit trees and vines are propagated -- is a form of cloning, and it's been going on for thousands of years. There are wine grapes grown today that are exact genetic copies of grapes grown by the Romans two millennia ago.

And just as now, the Roman writer Columella in De Re Rustica debated quantity versus quality. What is the end result for us living today, the consumer? We have a choice between the green seedless grapes or the red ones with seeds.

But I'm not done pontificating. What will happen to our value as male meat-selectors when all meat is the same? Our carefully honed skills in the butcher shop and at the grill will become useless, and those skills will atrophy. Soon we'll send our pre-pubescent children, of either sex, to the grocery store to pick up a steak, as if its selection were of no more importance than picking a 2-liter bottle of Pepsi.

Then our children will no longer respect us as fathers and wise and experienced teachers in the ways of the hunt, the cutting of one particular bull from the herd, the butchering and careful preparation of a steak that will be unique, outstanding in all respects, and indeed so memorable that our offspring will sing songs about its flavor and tenderness for generations to come. No, our steaks will become like cloned apple varieties, and when was the last time you heard a child singing about the greatness of a particular apple? We might as well put the steaks in a blender and turn it into meatloaf, just like applesauce that's fit only for serving in sterilized baby-food jars.

Mark my words. Cloning cows will spell the end of the American way of life and Western civilization as we know it, leading to the breakdown of the nuclear family, disrespect for elders, and the wholesale destruction of the entire steak-house industry.

 

[scotpens]

We might as well put the steaks in a blender and turn it into meatloaf, just like applesauce that's fit only for serving in sterilized baby-food jars.

My mother used to make a delicious meatloaf.

You got something against meatloaf? Or mothers?

 

[gturner]

^ Your mother made delicious meatloaf, but I'll bet your father made steak, like a man, out of a black angus steer, while telling of the courage the cow's father showed back in the great stampede of '78 when he stared down three rattlesnakes and a black bear, saving his entire herd from a leadership vacuum when they were all caught dumbstruck, staring wide-eyed at each other, wondering what to do, mooing their fear and confusion. The brave steer then led his herd across the raging floodwaters of the Brazos river, saving two cowboys in the process, and is responsible for the greatness of the steak your father served you. It was right that you should honor him.

Now what will you tell your own children when you throw a slab of cloned meat in a pan, that petri dish number 9372159065 met nominal nutrition parameters specified by the Bureau of Bland?