Were the Borg originally supposed to be "Conspiracy" aliens?

[Brutal Strudel]

Re: Were the Borg originally supposed to be "Conspiracy" ali

Why would the Conspiracy aliens have been so expensive? For the vast majority of the time, they would simply be humanoids with a little blue wiggly sticking out of their necks--and that would be obscured by hair and collars most of the time. Once they'd been established, we'd only rarely have to see the critters themselves and then they could be "played" by Cetie Eel-like puppets. Much cheaper even then the Tim Burton/Steampunk-looking Borg of the series (as oposed to the quasi-Giger zombies of the movies and Voyager). Really, now: how often did we see Dax's symbiont?

 

[Good Will Riker]

Re: Were the Borg originally supposed to be "Conspiracy" ali

^^^ I honestly don't know how much it would have cost to make the insect drone costumes, if it ended up being a race of insects rather than a race of cyborgs the Enterprise-D crew faced in a colossal vessel out in deep space. I would bet the cost would have been enormous, considering the Borg drones were fashioned from already pre-existing "Dune" and Tim Burton "Batman" costumes.

Looking at the "monster costumes" in the Wesley episode "The Dauphin," I cannot visualize the insects in anyway but appearing "silly" on screen once they assumed a humanoid form with the recognizable head, thorax, and abdomen as their external features.

Just look at the Dreamworks film "Antz," for example. They literally had to go through thousands and thousands of drawings until they got the look of the ants right for their film. TNG just did not have that luxury of time and money, especially in light of the fact that Hollywood was going through a Writers Guild Strike at the time in 1988.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

Re: Were the Borg originally supposed to be "Conspiracy" ali

Right. But my point is that the actual aliens themselves reside inside the body and are, for all intents and purposes, invisible. Thus there would be no need for costumes or, for that matter, spaceships since the only vessels thy'd be using would be comandeered Rom, Fed and Klingon ships.

 

[pookha]

Re: Were the Borg originally supposed to be "Conspiracy" ali

Good Will Riker said:, and replaced them with cyborgs (and, may have inadvertently ripped-off "Dr. WHO's" Cybermen in the process...).:

neil r jones was writting about cyborgs back in the 1930's.
i think people would be amazed how long certain concepts have been around.
pick up anthology called before the golden age sometime.

 

[Good Will Riker]

Re: Were the Borg originally supposed to be "Conspiracy" ali

pookha said:

neil r jones was writting about cyborgs back in the 1930's.
i think people would be amazed how long certain concepts have been around.
pick up anthology called before the golden age sometime.

It appears as though some members of TNG's production team were aware of the Borg's apparent similarities with Cybermen during the production of "The Neutral Zone.":

The Cybermen can be seen as a slightly more individualistic forerunner of the Borg from Star Trek. Similarities include converting their victims into Cybermen (although unlike the Borg there is no way to reverse cyber-conversion), and the use of the catch phrase "Resistance is useless/futile" and promises or threats of assimilation, such as "You will become like us." It has not been confirmed if the Cybermen influenced the creation of the Borg in any way, although the first episode that hints at the presence of the Borg ("The Neutral Zone", 1988) features, as a briefly glimpsed background detail, a computer screen which displays the names of the first six actors to play the Doctor; showing that at least some members of the production team were aware of Doctor Who.[6] Coincidentally or not, the first on screen appearance of the Borg was in the episode "Q Who?" (1989).

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cybermen

 

[Nebusj]

Re: Were the Borg originally supposed to be "Conspiracy" ali

pookha said:

Good Will Riker said:, and replaced them with cyborgs (and, may have inadvertently ripped-off "Dr. WHO's" Cybermen in the process...).:

neil r jones was writting about cyborgs back in the 1930's.
i think people would be amazed how long certain concepts have been around.
pick up anthology called before the golden age sometime.

The Zoromes, though, weren't villainous or out to conquer or annihilate or absorb everyone who wasn't them. (They all sounded alike just because science fiction writers hadn't discovered characterization in the 1930s.) They only put Professor Jameson's brain in a robot body as a courtesy.

The cybermen were rather more aggressive.

 

[pookha]

Re: Were the Borg originally supposed to be "Conspiracy" ali

yes i know they were not agressive though i suspect go through all the years of sf there were agreesive cyber being before who.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Re: Were the Borg originally supposed to be "Conspiracy" ali

Good Will Riker said:
do you believe that the writers and producers originally intended the Borg to be an insectoid race

Um, since you, yourself, mentioned the fact that "TNG Compendium published back in 1992 that the Borg were originally intended to be an insectoid race", you seem to be throwing doubt upon Allan Asherman's research. He wasn't making it up, you know.

 

[Good Will Riker]

Re: Were the Borg originally supposed to be "Conspiracy" ali

Therin of Andor said:

Good Will Riker said:
do you believe that the writers and producers originally intended the Borg to be an insectoid race

Um, since you, yourself, mentioned the fact that "TNG Compendium published back in 1992 that the Borg were originally intended to be an insectoid race", you seem to be throwing doubt upon Allan Asherman's research. He wasn't making it up, you know.

I chose to word it that way, because it is better to give people a choice to choose what they want to believe based on evidence and come to their own conclusions, rather than forcing one's own viewpoint unto others.

 

[Computer]

Charles Trip Tucker III said:
Yes, "Conspiracy" was the original idea for the Borg. However, it proved to be too expensive, so they went with cyborgs instead of alien bugs. This is why the Borg have that force of nature concept. Adding the Queen in First Contact was a natural progression. After all, the original insect concept also had a Queen.

Incredibly the Borg Queen concept (which makes perfect sense) wouldnt have happened if it hadnt been for studio interference in FC. Execs wanted a more one on one character as the focus villan and thus the queen was born.

 

[Sci]

Re: Were the Borg originally supposed to be "Conspiracy" ali

Good Will Riker said:

Therin of Andor said:

Good Will Riker said:
do you believe that the writers and producers originally intended the Borg to be an insectoid race

Um, since you, yourself, mentioned the fact that "TNG Compendium published back in 1992 that the Borg were originally intended to be an insectoid race", you seem to be throwing doubt upon Allan Asherman's research. He wasn't making it up, you know.

I chose to word it that way, because it is better to give people a choice to choose what they want to believe based on evidence and come to their own conclusions, rather than forcing one's own viewpoint unto others.

Since when did facts -- such as a decision made and communicated and then altered -- become matters of individual choice?

 

[Good Will Riker]

Re: Were the Borg originally supposed to be "Conspiracy" ali

Sci said:
Since when did facts -- such as a decision made and communicated and then altered -- become matters of individual choice?

I personally don't have all day to argue over semantics, so you tell me?

 

[Computer]

Re: Were the Borg originally supposed to be "Conspiracy" ali

Ok GWR and Sci the line must be drawn here! this far no futher!
Stop acting as if your both from a savage child race!"

"These forums arent about charting what he said or she said but exploring the uncharted possibilities of Star Treks existance"

Assimilate that!

Heh sorry its 12:40am and I couldnt help myself.

 

[Good Will Riker]

Re: Were the Borg originally supposed to be "Conspiracy" ali

^^^ That's alright. We just need to chill out and use a good laugh now and then.

 

[Saul]

Re: Were the Borg originally supposed to be "Conspiracy" ali

I had heard that the Borg would have been Robotic bugs if they could have afforded to do them. If it had been at the time of Voyagers CGI we may have seen a very different Borg.

 

[Sci]

Re: Were the Borg originally supposed to be "Conspiracy" ali

Good Will Riker said:

Sci said:
Since when did facts -- such as a decision made and communicated and then altered -- become matters of individual choice?

I personally don't have all day to argue over semantics, so you tell me?

Okay. It didn't, so unless you are contending that the writer of the TNG Companion lied -- which is something that you would need to provide evidence to support -- you cannot speak as though the idea that the TNG writers originally intended for the "Conspiracy" parasites to be the big threat that the Borg later became is an optional belief.

 

[Timo]

Re: Were the Borg originally supposed to be "Conspiracy" ali

If we want to make an argument out of it, the Compendium establishes the parasites were going to be a big threat first ("Conspiracy"); that the insectoids were going to be a big threat next ("The Neutral Zone"); that the Borg were going to be a big threat after that ("Q Who?"); and that only the last of the three panned out. And while each villain evolved into the next, things still seem a bit hazy on whether each step was going to be tied to the previous one to carry on the big threat legacy.

That is, if the insectoids had been made true, it may be that they would not have been connected back to the parasites after all. The Borg were supposed to be the "The Neutral Zone" aliens for sure, but by the time "Q Who?" was being pondered, they were not necessarily supposed to be the original parasites, strictly speaking. Although that is the impression one easily gets from the Compendium.

Timo Saloniemi