Well that could've gone better...

[Yeoman Randi]

I once saw someone jump from a building, she landed on her feet. She broke both legs, they twisted under her and then she would not stop screaming and moaning. Guess that's what happens when you jump from 5 floors.

OUCH!!!!

As someone who has been personally touched by a loved one's suicide attempt, i'd just like to say that suicide should never be an option. Yes, i understand that a person can be in so much pain that it seems to be the only option (i myself have felt that way in the past)-- but no matter how dark the hole is, there can be a way out, with the proper medication and therapy. We almost lost someone to suicide who believed there was no end to the pain. Three years later he is living a wonderful and happy life.

 

[RJDiogenes]

Yes, people commit suicide because they are in so much mental anguish from their illness that they can't bear to live. This isn't selfish. It's tragic.

The death of the second person in this case is even more tragic. She was just an innocent bystander, and the person who jumped certainly never intended for something like that to happen.

 

[Australis]

Rii, I think you're wrong. It's that impulse to think of others that's stopped me from doing something terminally stupid.

If a person thinks of those around them, it will put their problems in some perspective. Take the focus off themselves and onto family and friends, and the world does look different.

Of course, that isn't going to work for everyone - as said, chemical imbalances make in very hard to think with any kind of logic. But if you fall, family and friends are the safety net that will catch you.

I know one chap, was on painkillers for years. Finally got off them, his business was going well, had a nice family, all was well. He gassed himself. The consensus sems to be he was hit by depression after so long on painkillers, and a wave just... took him away.

I dunno. He locked himself away. Didn't let people in. If an outsider had gone to him and said, "How will your family feel when you're gone? And don't say happy or better. Nothing could be further from the truth." If someone had done that, he might still be here. But catching them in that moment is tough.

I'm wittering. Suicide is selfish. Sometimes they can't help themselves. We have to watch each other and try to catch them, just as they would try to catch us.

Anyone hear the story about the guy who went to a bridge to throw himself off? He rescued a woman who was going to do the same thing. Irony abounds. But the cool thing is they found each other and got married. Don't know about you, but I feel better for them doing that rather than jumping off hand in hand.

 

[thestrangequark]

^I'll say it again: Often when people are at the point where they are considering suicide they are so full of pain and self-loathing that they believe they are a burden on others. They feel their friends and loved-ones would be better off with out them. It's confused and sad, but not selfish.

 

[DeafPoet]

What on Earth are you talking about?

You mentioned the "time machine". I took that to mean that one can't go back and change what has happened. I was saying (albeit it poorly) that suicide doesn't usually occur in a vacuum. That there often behavioural changes/cues that all is not ok.

I've known a few people who've attempted suicide and failed. I don't know if they were that serious about it. But there definitely were signs.

However, I've had 2 friends who succeeded. One of whom was a close friend. And both of those came out of fucking nowhere. Quite often, the thing you'll hear most at a suicide victim's funeral is "I never saw it coming. He seemed fine."

Often, suicide does occur in a vacuum and there's just nothing anyone can do to stop it.

It sucks, but there it is.

 

[Australis]

^I'll say it again: Often when people are at the point where they are considering suicide they are so full of pain and self-loathing that they believe they are a burden on others. They feel their friends and loved-ones would be better off with out them. It's confused and sad, but not selfish.

Yeah, I quite understand. We have to watch each other. But even then that doesn't always help...

What on Earth are you talking about?

You mentioned the "time machine". I took that to mean that one can't go back and change what has happened. I was saying (albeit it poorly) that suicide doesn't usually occur in a vacuum. That there often behavioural changes/cues that all is not ok.

I've known a few people who've attempted suicide and failed. I don't know if they were that serious about it. But there definitely were signs.

However, I've had 2 friends who succeeded. One of whom was a close friend. And both of those came out of fucking nowhere. Quite often, the thing you'll hear most at a suicide victim's funeral is "I never saw it coming. He seemed fine."

Often, suicide does occur in a vacuum and there's just nothing anyone can do to stop it.

It sucks, but there it is.

And that's a tough one.

Thought: often, suicide is swept under the carpet as something shameful. I remember Tony Hancock wasn't allowed in the family home when growing up because of how he ended. Awareness is being raised all the time, but if it was less stigmatised, maybe this would be a start.

There are no easy answers, sadly.

 

[Rii]

Rii, I think you're wrong. It's that impulse to think of others that's stopped me from doing something terminally stupid.

If a person thinks of those around them, it will put their problems in some perspective. Take the focus off themselves and onto family and friends, and the world does look different.

I don't have a problem with someone refraining from suicide because they're worried about the effect it'll have on their family, or with someone attempting to convince them not to commit suicide upon that basis. In most cases - as you say - the impulse is temporary and anything which makes the individual catch their breath long enough to discover that there's still cause to go on living is a good thing.

What I do have a problem with is the notion that in choosing to commit suicide, the person was acting selfishly. Coming from the family it doesn't bother me so much, people express their grief in different ways and their behaviour would have to be extraordinary for me to cast judgement upon them under such circumstances.

It's when it comes - as it usually does - from folks not directly involved in the affair that I, err, 'object'. It reflects not only hubris in believing that one knows the suffering of another, and of the relationship(s) between the individual and his loved ones, but a cruel arrogance in assuming the right to cast judgement upon the deceased based upon such assumed knowledge, and cowardice in light of that individual's absence and inability to defend themselves against the charge. Worst, it demonstrates a callous disregard for the very essence of that individual as a human being, by implicitly suggesting that everything the he (or she) is should be subordinated to the interests of others, like a tool.

I'd like to think that - if the occasion arose - I would sacrifice my life for those of others. But I would fight to the death against the notion that anyone has the right to expect that of me. And of course, dying for others is much easier than living for others. The former requires merely a single, probably fleeting, act of will. The latter is endless. No one should be expected to carry that burden.

 

[Capn Flukie]

I'm getting old, I remember when this was a taboo subject on the TrekBBS.

 

[DeafPoet]

I'm getting old, I remember when this was a taboo subject on the TrekBBS.

It probably still is. This is all pretty hypothetical. Maybe that counts for something.

I did a huge mopey annoying thread back in the day about my buddy's suicide and it didn't get clanged. I think it's probably more for "So, I'm thinking of killing myself" type of threads.

 

[Kestra]

What on Earth are you talking about?

You mentioned the "time machine". I took that to mean that one can't go back and change what has happened. I was saying (albeit it poorly) that suicide doesn't usually occur in a vacuum. That there often behavioural changes/cues that all is not ok.

I've known a few people who've attempted suicide and failed. I don't know if they were that serious about it. But there definitely were signs.

However, I've had 2 friends who succeeded. One of whom was a close friend. And both of those came out of fucking nowhere. Quite often, the thing you'll hear most at a suicide victim's funeral is "I never saw it coming. He seemed fine."

Often, suicide does occur in a vacuum and there's just nothing anyone can do to stop it.

It sucks, but there it is.

Yeah, my family didn't know I was suicidal until I flat out told them I was. No one had any idea. I had to actually sit them down and be like, "If I go back to college I'm going to kill myself because I've been depressed for the past three years."

 

[Captain Ice]

I'm getting old, I remember when this was a taboo subject on the TrekBBS.

Talking about suicide itself isn't taboo. Saying you want to commit suicide or how you would do it if you were going to do it, however, is. It's because it becomes a possible liability issue.

 

[Holdfast]

Police in Chile say an apparent suicide caused another death as well when a woman jumping from a tall building landed on a cleaning lady below.

Well that's no good.







Who's left now to clean up the mess?

 

[Colonel Green]

Police in Chile say an apparent suicide caused another death as well when a woman jumping from a tall building landed on a cleaning lady below.

Well that's no good.







Who's left now to clean up the mess?

I'd say you're a terrible person, but I lol'd at this:

Often, suicide does occur in a vacuum and there's just nothing anyone can do to stop it.

It sucks, but there it is.

So who am I to judge?