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Well, (re) watched Statistical Probabliites

Photon

Photon

Commodore
Commodore
and its not as bad as I remember. Still not too good, only saved by Damar, Weyoun, and Sisko giving Bashir the business about the war. The Jack Pack is mildly funny mixed w/grating as fingernails on a chalkboard. Still, I see how this episode sets up In the Pale Moonlight and for that it deserves some props.

You are/were right Nav, its best of the Mensatard shows w/Melora being slightly below unwatchable.

"So tell me Dr what OTHER kinds of enhancemnts do you have"
"Just the mind, only...the mind"
Nice :guffaw:
 
Photon said:
and its not as bad as I remember. Still not too good, only saved by Damar, Weyoun, and Sisko giving Bashir the business about the war. The Jack Pack is mildly funny mixed w/grating as fingernails on a chalkboard. Still, I see how this episode sets up In the Pale Moonlight and for that it deserves some props.

You are/were right Nav, its best of the Mensatard shows w/Melora being slightly below unwatchable.

"So tell me Dr what OTHER kinds of enhancemnts do you have"
"Just the mind, only...the mind"
Nice :guffaw:
Click to expand...

It's not one of my favorites, but I never thought it was bad.


/War Damn Eagle
 
Glad your opinion of it is improving, Photon. :thumbsup:

Still gotta disagree with the statement that "it's not too good". Maybe your opinion would continue to improve on a few more watchings until you eventally agree it's a masterpiece. :lol:

Look at all the great stuff you got in this episode, what more can one ask for out of a single Trek episode much less a single episode of anything:

- Shows Federation is not so peachy-keen and morally good as they like to think of themselves, as they lock away and institutionalize the mentally-ill rather than treat them with respect like normal people. A good reason why Jack is messed up and a bit annoying is because for his entire life the Federation stigmatized him and then shirked it's responsibility to care for him in a decent way. And has no intention of changing any of that by the end of the episode either. Back to the institution with him.

- Whole episode has a fascinating idea as it's through line: is it better to fight a war you most likely can't win, or surrender to save hundreds of billions of lives? No easy answer either way.

- Shows the price of arrogance of a person or group of people thinking they know everything.

- Bashir unknowingly turns into a jerk when he lets his intellect go to his head, not something that would happen on certain "other" Treks shows where everyone must be a perfect gentleman at all times.

- Weyoun and Damar vs. Kira, and Weyoun and Damar hiding in the closet, only to be found by Odo = pure comedic brilliance, and amazing acting as always. Amazing writing in every single word, too.

- The Sisko's "Even if I knew..." speech: fascinating, the speech only a true leader could give. One of the very best speeches ever made in Trek or SciFi. That speech is almost on par with ITPM in terms of brilliant Sisko dialoguing.

- As you said, at least they put some funny humor into the Jack Pack's antics to balance out the annoyance factor.

- Morally gray area of if the Jack Pack did the right thing or not to try to commit treason to save 900 billion lives, and if Bashir did the right thing to stop them. Everyone is just doing what they see as right, no trite "good vs. evil" decisions that is usually the hallmark of TV stories. DS9 once again is in perfect form here by putting the hard, morally ambiguous questions on the table and not giving a cut and dried "correct" answer to them.
 
Sisko sounded sorta like Pres Bush and Bashir like the Move On Surrender crowd. And Sisko does make many good points, sometimes you gotta fight.
 
Agree with Navaros, largely for the reasons stated. You clearly need to watch this many more times Photon ;)
 
I thought it was a little crazy that in a couple days they were able to figure out (through "statistical probabilities") that the Fed would lose the war with 900 Billion casualties. How in the world could they think that they could come up with every possible scenario and know 100%, beyond a shadow of a doubt what the outcome would be?

Of course Bashir recanted from the idea at the end, but I can't believe that he believed it in the first place. He must have been really blinded by his believe in the superiority of himself and others in the Jack pack. He was placing all his faith in mathematics and ignoring all else...
 
Nah, all the other enhancees are locked up in institutions other than Bashir, who escaped that fate by lying for all his life. They probably dope them up 24/7 and keep them in straightjackets and rubber rooms etc.
 
Re: Well, (re) watched Statistical Probabilities

This is a good episode. Besides all the good stuff Navaro said, we are called upon to try to understand the point of view of geniuses, and what their greater knowledge and perception does to them. I love it whenever fiction tries to make us strain to understand things and point of view outside our experience. And I think they pulled it off, here. Thanks DS9.

The situation they set up was one where the "mutants" know, from their loftier vantage point that we can't imagine, that the calculations are so clear and definite that they can't be argued with. We would have to be on their level to know why this is. They can picture all the variables, and how they connect, in their heads all at once. If we could follow it all, we'd have the crap scared out of us, too.

That was quite a moment, seeing Bashir wandering the promenade, looking at people's faces, absolutely certain that everything was going to come crashing down on everyone and everything, the whole 'world', an entire civilization, or hundreds of civilizations. He wasn't being a jerk... he was in shock. The calculations couldn't be argued with, and no one knew it but him and Jack's bunch (why do we name the group after him?).....

It is true that the war was a wide-open situation with countless variables, many of which they'll never find out about, and no one could make absolute predictions. They don't come out and say that, but I'll bet Bashir realized this. Ego does come into it, but I suppose it's hard to examine your own egotism when you're in shock because you're dead certain the end of the world is nigh.
 
Navaros said:
Nah, all the other enhancees are locked up in institutions other than Bashir, who escaped that fate by lying for all his life. They probably dope them up 24/7 and keep them in straightjackets and rubber rooms etc.
Click to expand...

I don't recall the episode saying that. Didn't Bashir say that only people who had had their enhancements go "wrong" and end up with serious mental, emotional or physical problems were institutionalised?

He did say that anyone with illegal enhancements were barred from a wide range of professions, such as in Starfleet.
 
rofeta said:
Navaros said:
Nah, all the other enhancees are locked up in institutions other than Bashir, who escaped that fate by lying for all his life. They probably dope them up 24/7 and keep them in straightjackets and rubber rooms etc.
Click to expand...

I don't recall the episode saying that. Didn't Bashir say that only people who had had their enhancements go "wrong" and end up with serious mental, emotional or physical problems were institutionalised?
Click to expand...
That's correct.
 
The determination of someone being made 'wrong' by their enhancements is a subjective one. Jack was a little messed up but not to such an extent that he needed to be institutionalized for his whole life. Yet he was institutionalized for his whole life just the same, without being messed up enough to justify it.

No doubt many/most other okay enhancees are likewise victimized by this same subjective "you are wrong, so we are going to institutionalize you for life" policy.
 
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