Well make a show where the female leads are competent,

[Star Wolf]

Well make a show where the female leads are competent,

The statement was made about a cop show to explain its popularity. It occurred to me when in the last 25 years has a female cop or soldier been shown as anything but competent? Since Pepper Anderson was running around in Police Woman and Charlie's Angels could not be actual street cops we have had nothing but competent woman shown in the security services.

The most incompetent a female cop ever got in my memory was too push to far while undercover and get herself raped. Even then a regular character dealt with the rape and remained a police professional. Well maybe the corrupt Sgt Cruz on Third Watch wasn't professional but she was as competent as Sgt Vic Mackey.

So can anyone name an incompetent regular character female, cop, soldier, spy, agent, crewman of a starship etc? As close as I can think of was Hooperman's boss Captain Stern but then she was in the tradition of the boss dealing with the star cop being incompetent, not a woman being incompetent.

 

[captcalhoun]

Janeway. she couldn't use a TIMED DETONATOR on the tricobolt device?!

INEXCUSABLE!

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Kara "Starbuck" Thrace is a galactic-class frakup.

And as for Laura Roslins' leadership skills, well it would be a spoiler to describe this in detail, but let's just say that the people in the RTF might have cause to complain.

 

[Star Wolf]

Kara Starbuck Thrace is a galactic-class frakup.

Starbuck is in the tradition of thre hotstick who does anytrhing on the ground because her fighting skill is far from clueless but superior. The same qualities the male Starbuck, Pappy Boyington, JAG lawyer Harm Rabb and all other leading character fighter pilots have on every show.

 

[Cutter John]

Well I will admit that tv and movies are a LOT better than they used to be. But it still has a habit of shoving their female cast members into the background once the action starts.

I guess its mostly a matter of a character who can be both likeable, or tough as needed.

 

[Cutter John]

Well I will admit that tv and movies are a LOT better than they used to be. But it still has a habit of shoving their female cast members into the background once the action starts.

I guess its mostly a matter of a character who can be both likeable, or tough as needed.

 

[Star Wolf]

Well I will admit that tv and movies are a LOT better than they used to be. But it still has a habit of shoving their female cast members into the background once the action starts.

I guess its mostly a matter of a character who can be both likeable, or tough as needed.

A few years ago when Dennis Rodman was on SOF I noticed that every para military unit on TV had a woman. On JAG it seemed like every other F14 aviator was a woman. On Third Watch, on every big firefight episode it was Faith Yokas who put down the bad guy after the first season, until another woman Sgt Cruz shot her. Dee Dee McCall was the only partner who could keep up with Rick Hunter. Cagney and Lacy where professional even without looking like a professional model. I can't remember a woman after Gina and Trudy were an afterthought to Crockett and Tubbs who wasn't just a fraction behind Xena, The Warrior Princess.

 

[Hermiod]

So can anyone name an incompetent regular character female, cop, soldier, spy, agent, crewman of a starship etc? As close as I can think of was Hooperman's boss Captain Stern but then she was in the tradition of the boss dealing with the star cop being incompetent, not a woman being incompetent.

I can't think of anyone beyond Starbuck and Elliot from Scrubs. Even then, Starbuck's the best pilot in the galaxy and Elliot doesn't frak up nearly as much as JD does.

I like watching shows where none of the characters, male or female, are perfect. These days, however, having one female character make one mistake all season is season finale cliffhanger material. Even 24 has brought in their new freckled faced Jackette.

 

[Marc]

Well I will admit that tv and movies are a LOT better than they used to be. But it still has a habit of shoving their female cast members into the background once the action starts.

I guess its mostly a matter of a character who can be both likeable, or tough as needed.

A few years ago when Dennis Rodman was on SOF I noticed that every para military unit on TV had a woman. On JAG it seemed like every other F14 aviator was a woman. On Third Watch, on every big firefight episode it was Faith Yokas who put down the bad guy after the first season, until another woman Sgt Cruz shot her. Dee Dee McCall was the only partner who could keep up with Rick Hunter. Cagney and Lacy where professional even without looking like a professional model. I can't remember a woman after Gina and Trudy were an afterthought to Crockett and Tubbs who wasn't just a fraction behind Xena, The Warrior Princess.

But at least one if not two of those female pilots on JAG were screw ups. One was given her wings because of her tits n bits despite her lack of skill. I'm not sure if it was that or another female pilot who at the end of the ep spread herself over the Seahawk's deck thought the RIO managed to eject.

Iirc there was a third who was good pilot but ended having to resign because she was a lesbian.

 

[Star Wolf]

Well I will admit that tv and movies are a LOT better than they used to be. But it still has a habit of shoving their female cast members into the background once the action starts.

I guess its mostly a matter of a character who can be both likeable, or tough as needed.

A few years ago when Dennis Rodman was on SOF I noticed that every para military unit on TV had a woman. On JAG it seemed like every other F14 aviator was a woman. On Third Watch, on every big firefight episode it was Faith Yokas who put down the bad guy after the first season, until another woman Sgt Cruz shot her. Dee Dee McCall was the only partner who could keep up with Rick Hunter. Cagney and Lacy where professional even without looking like a professional model. I can't remember a woman after Gina and Trudy were an afterthought to Crockett and Tubbs who wasn't just a fraction behind Xena, The Warrior Princess.

But at least one if not two of those female pilots on JAG were screw ups. One was given her wings because of her tits n bits despite her lack of skill. I'm not sure if it was that or another female pilot who at the end of the ep spread herself over the Seahawk's deck thought the RIO managed to eject.

That was a ripped fromthe headlines storyline when one of the first female fighter pilots was accused of incompetence after her death when she lost an engine landing. But then those weren't regular characters, Mac was and with rifle or pistol was she incompetent?

 

[Lindley]

On The Wire, McNultey comments that the only two female cops he's worked with who were worth a damn were both lesbians.

 

[sidious618]

Kate on LOST is pretty incompetent. She's hot and yet has managed to turn a whole fanbase of horny men against her who now actively hope for her death. Not exactly a crowning achievement.

 

[Star Wolf]

On The Wire, McNultey comments that the only two female cops he's worked with who were worth a damn were both lesbians.

the Wire this one may be hard to awnser, lol. Okay Beattie (sp?) was like most of the cops on the show. It was a good paying job in a dying town and she just punched the clock for a check. Just like most of her male counterparts. Kima on the other hand was REAL POLICE, when McNulty and Freeman did their thing it was only Bunk and Kima who remained true to the calling. And not just that season, for the entire series. In fact Kima keep a higher professional standard then Bunk and all other main characters. It was Bunk who accepted Omar's testi(LIE) while Kima refused to do the same to Wee-Bay. Her only fault was to cheat on her girlfriend just as Bunk cheated on his wife.

 

[Star Wolf]

Janeway. she couldn't use a TIMED DETONATOR on the tricobolt device?!

INEXCUSABLE!

Have you seen Encounter at Farpoint recently? Every Star Trek Captain except Kirk was the same in their first year episodes. They all carried our, the trekkie, baggage of what good people would do so walked around like they had a stick up their hind parts until the producers settled down the characters. In the end our scientist normally had the biggest concealed weapons, with a Prime Directive to forbid their use. I would take Janeway year one over Picard, year one as far as competence goes.

 

[captcalhoun]

i let Picard have a lot slack, he was up against a God. Janeway was up against a dying old man and a buncha Klingon knock-offs.

 

[Star Wolf]

What I'm getting from the Trek verse fans is that Janeway is the cause for the perception that woman are missing from the action in action/adventure shows. Okay Lost and Scrubs were mentioned but I don't watch them.

The original series was 40 years ago. Sure there was a story about a bitter woman who thought she could not be a Starfleet Captain because she was a hero and the reoccurring women on the Enterprise filled traditional femine roles of secretary, receptionist and nurse. But that was 40 years ago. 35 years ago as women were moving towards filling basic patrol in police forces we got the oh my God!, a woman detective type roles and shows. However for a couple of generations woman have been competent. After the Cagney and Lacy's she would be partnerd in either the main cop team as in Criminal Intent, SVU, or seen in one of the supporting teams with never any doubt of her competence. The only show I can think of where a woman wasn't was the period piece of Life on Mars were the woman was compotent but society had not yet accepted her in the new role of protector. So they showed how it used to be.

On shows like Third Watch skinny Kim Raver could be paired with another model thin paramedic and unless the story was about a massively fat patiant, they would manhandle the guy up and down New York stairways.

I will modify the original question. Are there shows without women?

 

[RaymondJames]

Special Agent Todd in NCIS. The characetr was killed off when the actress wished to leave and I did love her character and she was competent for the most part but, in the Ari arc she was so obsessed with the bastard. She didn't kill him when she was given chance time and time again. An arguement can also be made for Director Sheppard, who went out guns blazing like the tough bitch she was

 

[Star Wolf]

Special Agent Todd in NCIS. The characetr was killed off when the actress wished to leave and I did love her character and she was competent for the most part but, in the Ari arc she was so obsessed with the bastard. She didn't kill him when she was given chance time and time again. An arguement can also be made for Director Sheppard, who went out guns blazing like the tough bitch she was

NCIS spoilers below














I'll admit it was discussion of Special Agent Todd and Officer Davi which inspired this thread. While Jack Bauer may kill and James Bond has a license to kill your run of the mill federal agent is not the assassin that Mossad agent Zeva Davi is. For half of the Ari episodes it is thought that he was a double agent working for the good guys attempting to infiltrate Al-Qeada. Agent Gibbs had to settle for a wounding shot to teach him a lesson for he thought at the time were friendly fire deaths used to establish Ari's cover. Like when Jack Bauer cut off a federal prisoner's head to establish his cover.

Director Sheppard was professional for most of her run on NCIS. It was only the last arc when she left the show that she got target fixation and somehow took out 5 hit men who knew they were going into a fight with a handgun.

 

[RaymondJames]

[/quote]
Director Sheppard was professional for most of her run on NCIS. It was only the last arc when she left the show that she got target fixation and somehow took out 5 hit men who knew they were going into a fight with a handgun.[/quote]

She was well trained by Gibbs...and Gibbs had great training himself no way she was going to get out of there alive and she gave them hell.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

Special Agent Todd in NCIS. The characetr was killed off when the actress wished to leave and I did love her character and she was competent for the most part but, in the Ari arc she was so obsessed with the bastard. She didn't kill him when she was given chance time and time again.

Well, I agree that she didn't kill Ari once when she had the chance (in their first encounter in Autopsy). But Gibbs was WAY more obsessed with Ari than was anyone else on the team. I mean, Gibbs made a defacto screensaver out of a photo of the guy, he kept running him through the databases so often.

Additionally, it should be noted that when Ari took out Kate, he could easily have taken out any one of the other agents on the roof - including Gibbs. He chose Kate. But no one knew he was there until Kate got it.

He could have taken any one of them out.

Anyway, I'll fault Kate for not taking Ari out the first time they crossed paths. But I'm not buying her as any more 'incompetent' than the rest of the team during the balance of the Ari arc.