"Weapons off-line" and other dumb mistakes

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Ever notice that the chief engineer of the Kelvin says that the weapons are off-line, yet the Kelvin continues to fire phasers and phton torpedoes?

Of course I know you've noticed that they screwed up distances from Klingons in this scene.

 

[SilentP]

They were repaired? And the Kelvin had zilch torpedoes anyway?

Did we see Klingons closer than 75,000 km?

 

[Cyke101]

According to IMDB.com:

Incorrectly regarded as goofs: During the battle between the USS Kelvin and the Narada, the engineer of the Kelvin reports that the weapons are offline, yet in the next barrage of torpedoes from the Romulan vessel, the Kelvin's phasers are seen firing again. However, the phasers in this scene target only the torpedoes, indicating that they are likely part of a point-defense system, which is only designed to target incoming projectiles. Therefore, the weapons systems could still be offline, but defensive systems could still be operational.

The point-defense system may or may not be right, but the gist of this is that there's not enough supporting evidence to render the scene as a mistake, either. Besides, this is Trek science -- anything can happen for the plot to proceed. As well, it could be that Starfleet shields were non-existant in ENT but were around for TOS, so maybe the Kelvin has a rudimentary version and depends on both a primitive shield and a point-defense system. Over time, when Starfleet improved the shield, it rendered the point-defense system redundant.

As well, SilentP is right, we don't see torpedoes from the Kelvin. We see white globs of pulse fire sure, but they're fired from NX-01 style turrets, whereas we've seen torpedoes across all eras (except for TOS) being fired by tubes, including this film.

 

[Timo]

FWIW, when Nero's second attack causes the weapons to go offline, there is a prominent warning "WEAPONS OFFLINE" visible on the main screen. There's also a "SHIELDS CRITICAL" and later "SHIELDS OFFLINE" warning there.

Yet immediately after the first attack, no warnings are visible on the main screen. Nor do we see any warning when Nero kills Robau and we glimpse part of the main screen. So it would seem logical to assume that weapons only fell offline for a very brief moment in the first attack, and were returned to action just as that attack ended. Or that the claim that they went offline was a mistake made in a tense situation.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Data Holmes]

There are two types of "phasers" being used by the Kelvin. If you watch closely, there are a series of high rate of fire pulse cannons ringing the saucer which appear to be Point defense weapons of some type that similar to a Phalanx CIWS which fire white pulses. Then there are the main battery phasers which fire from the 12, 3, 9 o'clock saucer positions. They fire slower and more powerful red beams/pulses.

 

[Timo]

Actually, I don't think there is a 12 o'clock battery at all. The only beams I see firing come from the endpoints of the USS KELVIN text, at roughly 10 and 2 o'clock, and from comparable ventral spots. There are double emitters in each of those locations, in the middle of distinct yellow squares (even though the beams consist of as many as half a dozen separate VFX streaks if one looks closely enough). At 12 o'clock, there is no sign of such an emitter bank, nor evidence of beams coming from that location.

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/xihd/trekxihd0036.jpg

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Data Holmes]

Actually, I don't think there is a 12 o'clock battery at all. The only beams I see firing come from the endpoints of the USS KELVIN text, at roughly 10 and 2 o'clock, and from comparable ventral spots. There are double emitters in each of those locations, in the middle of distinct yellow squares (even though the beams consist of as many as half a dozen separate VFX streaks if one looks closely enough). At 12 o'clock, there is no sign of such an emitter bank, nor evidence of beams coming from that location.

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/xihd/trekxihd0036.jpg

Timo Saloniemi

Good call, Timo. I've only seen the film three times so I was going from memory.

Does the enterprise have a 12 o'clock emplacement?

 

[MvRojo]

Of course I know you've noticed that they screwed up distances from Klingons in this scene.

Not sure what you're referring to, but it did bug me that they totally discounted the Klingons based on the fact that the border was 75,000 km away. Like they didn't even consider that the Klingons might have crossed the border to menace the Federation.

It's like a U.S. ship detecting weapons fire while 75 km away from North Korea and saying, "Eh, they're 75 km away...it can't be them."

 

[M'Sharak]

Does the enterprise have a 12 o'clock emplacement?

It does.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Of course I know you've noticed that they screwed up distances from Klingons in this scene.

Not sure what you're referring to, but it did bug me that they totally discounted the Klingons based on the fact that the border was 75,000 km away. Like they didn't even consider that the Klingons might have crossed the border to menace the Federation.

It's like a U.S. ship detecting weapons fire while 75 km away from North Korea and saying, "Eh, they're 75 km away...it can't be them."

I was far beyond drunk when I made that post, but that is actually what I meant exactly.

 

[MvRojo]

Of course I know you've noticed that they screwed up distances from Klingons in this scene.

Not sure what you're referring to, but it did bug me that they totally discounted the Klingons based on the fact that the border was 75,000 km away. Like they didn't even consider that the Klingons might have crossed the border to menace the Federation.

It's like a U.S. ship detecting weapons fire while 75 km away from North Korea and saying, "Eh, they're 75 km away...it can't be them."

I was far beyond drunk when I made that post, but that is actually what I meant exactly.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

If they had said 75 light-years or something, it would have been better.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

You know, there's nothing that canonically identifies what Kelvin's weapons actually are. Since all other phaser weapons in the entire movie all fire beams, it's possible the beams we see from the Kelvin aren't phasers at all, it's entirely possible they're some type of directional force beam that forms the VISIBLE component of the Kelvin's (obsolete) deflector shields.

That being, the purpose of those beam weapons is to deflect incoming projectiles away from the ship, which--with weapons--typically has the effect of detonating them prematurely. In which case, Kelvin's weapons may very well have been offline: Robau orders "fire all phasers" just before he is told that "Weapons are off line," and behold, in the very next scene Kelvin is hit by torpedoes with all of its pulse turrets still in their silos, not doing anything at all.

 

[lucas1701]

Did we see Klingons closer than 75,000 km?

Please bear in mind that 75,000 km is about one-fifth of the distance from the Earth to the moon (about a gnat's pubic hair in astronomical terms). Also consider that the Kelvin was inside a solar system close to a star, therefore the Klingon boundary must logically bisect the system! This makes no sense either, since planets would orbit in and out of the boundary throughout the year (this would mean some pretty rapid regime change on said planets!!).

Remember we are talking about territories that span many hundreds of trillions of kilometers. Someone mentioned North Korea- on that scale, it would be like telling your captain: 'we're 0.75 millimeters from the N Korean border'.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

^ Unless, like me, you take it as a given that Trek empires do not have contiguous borders and that "Klingon/Federation/Whoever" space is defined in terms of specific planets and stars, not just a giant invisible wall painted in the stars. Especially since the stars themselves would also be in motion relative to those borders, making such a separation equally meaningless.

It's more likely the "Klingon border" in this case describes the exclusion zone around a particular planet in this systems that the Klingons had claimed as part of their empire. If that border is is a sphere 200,000km in diameter from that moon/planet/whatever, then 75,000km would be close enough to Klingon space to wonder if they were responsible for it, but far enough away that such a massive phenomenon would have to be produced by a major starbase or a large group of ships, which Kelvin would have noticed if they had crossed the border.

 

[Jeyl]

Here's my contribution!

1 minute and 32 seconds into the film.

Kelvin Officer: You should see this. It looks like a lightning storm!
seconds later....
Kelvin Officer: It's still out of visual range.

 

[Cyke101]

Here's my contribution!

1 minute and 32 seconds into the film.

Kelvin Officer: You should see this. It looks like a lightning storm!
seconds later....
Kelvin Officer: It's still out of visual range.

Long range sensor scans vs. actual video (like) feed? It's not like Picard and crew have ever detected an anomaly, set course for it, and then get close enough to "magnify" the image.

 

[Jeyl]

Oh, I got another for ya.

The make out of the Kelvin is simple. The bottom tube is the warp engine, the saucer section houses the bridge, and the upper tube has the deflector dish and the shuttle bay. √

When Captain Robau goes to the shuttle bay (above the saucer section where the bridge is located), it shows the turbolift inside the shuttle bay going DOWN from what looks like the high ceiling, he walks out, and goes UP a flight of stairs to get into the shuttle! I don't go to the 15 floor only to get there, go up to the 20th, then go down to the 14th and take the stairs up to the fifteenth. Continuity please?

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Does anybody else think it's too much when people are nitpicking such minor stuff?

 

[shadowedgalaxy]

Does anybody else think it's too much when people are nitpicking such minor stuff?

People nitpick previous Star Trek movies and shows all the time; what makes the new movie so special?

 

[Kpnuts]

There are two types of "phasers" being used by the Kelvin. If you watch closely, there are a series of high rate of fire pulse cannons ringing the saucer which appear to be Point defense weapons of some type that similar to a Phalanx CIWS which fire white pulses. Then there are the main battery phasers which fire from the 12, 3, 9 o'clock saucer positions. They fire slower and more powerful red beams/pulses.

No shit sherlock