I'm sure someone out there in the world thinks "TATV" was the best episode of the final season. Which makes my faith in humanity drop even lower than the strata it already wallows in.
Weakest Season FOUR Episode (besides TATV)
- Thread starter Level 2 Diagnostic
- Start date
That was random. I can't recall anyone, anywhere saying that TATV was the best episode of the fourth season? Also, did you read the thread title?
Actually, remember that in Star Trek III by the time they got back to Earth, Dr. McCoy had held Spock's Katra for a few weeks; and after they 'stole' the 1701-A; Dr. McCoy performed a long range scan properly. McCoy didn't start showing 'looney' signs until they reached the Earth Spacedock. My inference is that McCoy functioned fine up to that point.
Archer, on the other hand, only had Surak's Katra for a few days. As for the fight with the Vulcan commandos, I agree that there's no way Archer should have won. As to the Vulcan Neck Pinch - I think it's possible. In the incident with Dr. McCoy; the Starfleet Security officer WAS wearing a thick coat.
Captain X
Rear Admiral
That scan took place after they had been to Spacedock and his cheese had slid off of his cracker - Kirk gave him an injection, remember? My point is that he couldn't even properly perform a nerve pinch with Spock (who had plenty of practice doing that) inside of his head, yet somehow Surak's katra made Archer into Bruce Lee.
I suppose it is possible that the combined skills of Syrran and the Father of Logic resulted in a more secure katra transfer.
I remember the line in STIII..."You're suffering from a Vulcan mind-meld, Doctor." IIRC, in the book adaptation, Sarek goes even further and tells Kirk that McCoy is having so much trouble functioning because he is having an allergic reaction to Spock's katra.
Anyway, I really enjoyed the Vulcan arc. Soval! Plus a lot of other cool things.
It's true that Archer was in a sense an "accidental hero"-- Surak began by saying they were "stuck with each other." But I got the sense that Surak chose a human on purpose. Surak told Archer that a human [carrying the katra] could accomplish what a Vulcan could not. And there must have been a reason why Surak resided in Syrran's head all those years and yet never revealed the location of the Kir'Shara. Surak seemed to be waiting for someone he thought could bring the Kir'Shara to light in the most effective way, without the baggage that a native Vulcan might be saddled with.
Aaaaand I'm still not being much help in the "weakest episode" department.
I remember the line in STIII..."You're suffering from a Vulcan mind-meld, Doctor." IIRC, in the book adaptation, Sarek goes even further and tells Kirk that McCoy is having so much trouble functioning because he is having an allergic reaction to Spock's katra.
Anyway, I really enjoyed the Vulcan arc. Soval! Plus a lot of other cool things.
It's true that Archer was in a sense an "accidental hero"-- Surak began by saying they were "stuck with each other." But I got the sense that Surak chose a human on purpose. Surak told Archer that a human [carrying the katra] could accomplish what a Vulcan could not. And there must have been a reason why Surak resided in Syrran's head all those years and yet never revealed the location of the Kir'Shara. Surak seemed to be waiting for someone he thought could bring the Kir'Shara to light in the most effective way, without the baggage that a native Vulcan might be saddled with.Aaaaand I'm still not being much help in the "weakest episode" department.
Captain X
Rear Admiral
And yet it was still a contrived excuse to have Archer bring enlightenment to the noble savages. How much you bet me even if he didn't have Super!Katra!Power!, he still would've been a Vulcan-fu master? After all he could apparently out-shoot both his armory officer and a career soldier...
YES. I've been posting in here and in context for days now.
And I was commenting on the very strong possibility knowing the fickle nature of TREK and ENT fans everywhere that there are those who think the finale was the best. Statistically speaking, there HAVE to be a few out there simply based on the numbers in the greater community.
Is there anything good about TATV? I don't think I've heard a single person say they like it on here. Odd. I have 8 episodes left to complete my first run through the entire ENT series and I feel like I am on a ship moving towards The Perfect Storm (TATV).
Just repeat this mantra:Is there anything good about TATV? I don't think I've heard a single person say they like it on here. Odd. I have 8 episodes left to complete my first run through the entire ENT series and I feel like I am on a ship moving towards The Perfect Storm (TATV).
It ends with Terra Prime... It ends with Terra Prime... It ends with Terra Prime... It ends with Terra Prime... It ends with Terra Prime...
And you should have stopped short of bringing up TATV, cooleddie.
The thread title and the OP make the parameters of this thread quite clear. TATV is off-limits here. No bitching. No bashing. No gushing. None. Zero. Zilch. Zippo.
Got it, everyone? No TATV here means NO TATV HERE.
If you must vent about that episode, select one of the other gazillion "TATV Suxx !!1!1!!" threads readily available in this happy forum. Okay?
Now let's get back on topic, shall we?
I do not think Archer getting Surak's katra was contrived; I think structurally it was set up well, between T'Pol/Archer's meetup with Syrran (with Surak perhaps having something to do with that), and that initial talk between Surak and Archer, where Surak lays out his concerns with the way the Vulcans have strayed from Surak's initial teachings.
I don't really look at the Vulcans as "noble savages," or as Archer bringing them "enlightenment." Surak's teachings have always been there; the message had simply been garbled over the centuries by politics and self-serving agendas, as I saw it. Archer seemed to be serving the role of an objective messenger on behalf of Surak.
And no, I don't think Archer would have done well against the Vulcan commandos without Surak in his head. I remember Archer getting his ass kicked pretty soundly by the Augments.
Fair enough. My apologies to all for mentioning IT. That said, my thoughts on "Daedalus" bear closer debate. I'd love to hear more opinions on that episode and why I might be wrong.
That said, my thoughts on "Daedalus" bear closer debate. I'd love to hear more opinions on that episode and why I might be wrong.
I never got the Daedalus hate, either. I remember the grade thread that came out the night it aired, and 80 percent of everyone gave it a "B," which was the worst grade I'd ever seen for any episode to that point. I guess it shows how standards had been raised in the last season, because I think that had it aired during season two, it would have been far more well-recieved.
The one thing I didn't like in season four? The Klingopn arch. I didn't need two (or was it three? I never watched it after the first run) hours dealing with Klingon forehead ridges.
Captain X
Rear Admiral
It was just written so Archer would happen to be the one closest to Syrran when lightning defied all physics I have ever learned by smashing through rock in order to perfectly strike the expendable character we met minutes before as he sat at least a meter away from any of the inner rock surface (unless I'm remembering wrong for some reason).
What does any of that have to do with Archer suddenly being strong enough and skilled enough to take on more than one trained Vulcan commando while his Vulcan first officer, who we've been informed on multiple occasions has training in this kind of combat, is taken out very early in the fight? Especially when viewed in light of what happened with McCoy in ST3?
And I saw the Vulcans as having been turned into this corrupted version of their normal selves, who apparently needed a superhero to reintroduce them to their own religion.
Everyone got their ass kicked by the Augments. Plus his skills tended to differ depending on if he was supposed to be kidnapped that week or not.
Aside from the teenage angst, I actually found these to be among the best of S4, and actually kind of neat in how it tied things together. Although I still found the idea of Archer charging in by himself to be stupid - and before anyone mentions Kirk, I cringe just as much at the way he did that.
I liked the Vulcan arc. If I had objected to the fight choreography in one sequence in one episode, it wouldn't keep me up at night. I'd much rather focus on what worked for me than what didn't.
I liked "Daedalus," too. Great cinematography in that one, very low-key and creepy, and all the underlying tension between the characters. And the Klingon arc too--John Schuck is terrific in that one. He brings a Shakespearean gravitas to Antaak, and shows us a Klingon who is interested in something other than warfare.
Ohhh, I seriously need to get out of this thread. Is anyone going to start a "best of" Season 4? Any other Phloxists around here?
I liked "Daedalus," too. Great cinematography in that one, very low-key and creepy, and all the underlying tension between the characters. And the Klingon arc too--John Schuck is terrific in that one. He brings a Shakespearean gravitas to Antaak, and shows us a Klingon who is interested in something other than warfare.
Ohhh, I seriously need to get out of this thread.
Is anyone going to start a "best of" Season 4? Any other Phloxists around here?
Phlox is my third favorite character. I think he had some magnificent moments, but the episodes where he was the main character were mostly lacking. His finest moment of Season 3 was Damage, where he and Archer are talking about doing things they know are immoral.
I rewatched "Daedalus" on DVD last night and caught one item that did bother me both in 2004 as well as now. The Barrens. That supposed area of space in the Alpha Quadrant devoid of any stars or planets within a 100-l.y. radius. When did this happen? Any area of space that large and devoid of any stellar phenomena whatsoever would be a little more noticeable and worthy of mention.
Not to mention that it would take them nearly 1 year to get there at top speed and one year to get back (Yes, in season 4 it seems ENT adopted a tried and true TOS staple - the ship can move at the 'speed of plot' - meaning that if they need to get there and then get back to Earth within the week, they can.
); hell in the first two seasons they at least tried to maintain that rate - as in Two Days and Two Nights Archer stated they'd come about 90 LY from Earth and that was nearly one year after leaving spacedock.
Captain X
Rear Admiral
I didn't, and the fight scene is just one part of why I didn't. The descriptor I use of it being the "Super!Archer brings enlightenment to the noble savages" arc sums it up fairly well, but aside from the aspect of having to make Archer the frakking hero every frakking episode, even during an obvious opportunity for another character to shine (like say T'Pol), the really over the top bits with the V'Las (aka Admiral Leyton) provoking a war in a really obvious political statement and his intense need to kill all the Syrannites without really being questioned or challenged until Archer magically shows up with "enlightenment" was incredibly contrived. I remember liking the arc too at first, to an extent anyway, but the more I think about it, the less I like this arc.
What was so great about Archer abusing his officers and endangering his ship and crew to continue on a mission his friend lied about in order to get them out there?
Ohhh, I seriously need to get out of this thread.
I'm pretty sure mods can start threads, can't they?
Not to mention that it would take them nearly 1 year to get there at top speed and one year to get back (Yes, in season 4 it seems ENT adopted a tried and true TOS staple - the ship can move at the 'speed of plot' - meaning that if they need to get there and then get back to Earth within the week, they can.
And isn't there a line in The Xindi where one of the Reptillians or Primates says Earth is only 60 light years away from the Expanse or some similar distance? The show is pretty great for the most part, but the distances and geography don't add up much of the time.
