WB's Justice League 2017 movie pre-discussion thread

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Samurai8472, Jun 21, 2016.

  1. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, I'd say there is a 0% chance they were lying about what happened with Snyder's family. There are about a million other lies, ones that are less horrific and aren't easily disprovable (seriously, it wouldn't be hard to figure out if they were lying about this) that they could go with if they wanted to kick him off the movie without being blatant about it.

    That said, is it possible Whedon is doing more extensive changes then originally thought now that he's there? Its definitely possible, and the change of composer is a point toward it. It wouldn't be a huge change to the core of the movie because they don't really have the time, but I could see Whedon still doing a lot of stuff for scenes like character interactions and things like that. I doubt the main plot of the movie would or could be effected, but he could definitely be adding things that would noticeably change some elements of the movie from what Snyder did.

    I hope that happens, but I'd say its probably about a 50/50 chance of it happening at this point. At the bare minimum I'm sure the movie will be at least a bit different with Whedon finishing it, but how much will be hard to say until the movie comes out.
     
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  2. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    You disagree with me about Diana in BvS, good for you.

    The Diana in BvS and Wonder Woman feel very different to me.

    I'm saying if Diana goes back to being a cardboard cut out that is only there for action scenes in Justice League, I will be disappointed.

    Snyder is a professional paid millions to make movies for people, some criticism for him isn't considered "picking" on him. The man has his issues, like gray visuals, grimdark heroes, slow motion, weak scripts, and poorly written female characters.


    I'm pretty sure nearly every post on the internet are opinions, unless they cite a source or fact, no need to ask that question. Unless you think every single post online should begin with "In my opinion"?
     
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  3. Dick Whitman

    Dick Whitman Commodore Commodore

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    I am not a big fan of Synder. Yet it would not surprise me if elements and whole scenes that he solely directed which are popular will be credited by his haters to be from Whedon. Like it or not this is what fans do. They are quick to assume the stuff they like is the responsibility of the person whose work they liked in the past. Than blame another collaborator for what they preceived as a mistake. Even if the opposite is the truth.
     
  4. Hunter Zolomon

    Hunter Zolomon Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Nope you just have to watch documentaries in how the star wars movies where made. George lucas didnt even direct the empire strikes back. And with the prequels nobody challenged him just a bunch of yes men.
    I love watchmen but to my best knowledge snyder has yet to make a movie that was universally loved since 300. That is not a good sign, he prioritises style over substance. I believe he is a great producer but when it comes to directing he has some serious deficiencies.
     
  5. JacksonArcher

    JacksonArcher Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It was a total PR move. Do you guys believe everything you read in the press? I'm not trying to tout what happened as #FakeNews, but in a way it was. Unfortunately, I can't really validate my point further, so you'll have to take what I am saying at face value. Of course, none of you are expected to do so, and I don't blame anyone for not believing what I am saying.

    I will say, this. I'm friends with numerous people on this board, some of whom no longer post here. I do have connections at Warner Bros. For example, I knew Joss Whedon was going to direct Batgirl before it was officially announced. I could have people from this forum validate this. I understand how intangible that is as verifiable proof, but I've been hearing rumblings about Snyder and Warner Bros. for several months now.

    Warner Bros. wanted Snyder out before what happened in March. After what happened, Warner Bros. and Snyder worked together to publicly announce Snyder's departure in a way that would alleviate fans' concerns. Yes, I know how this sounds, but studios have done far worse in the past. The contact I spoke to at WB said Snyder's tragedy was nothing new to the executives at the studio. It was business as usual. It was the studio conflating that in order for Snyder to leave in a way that wouldn't cause alarm for the studio or the film. The last thing WB wants is for people to think one of their biggest tentpoles is in serious trouble, especially after Ben Affleck departed The Batman as a director (and may depart in more ways than that).

    Snyder leaving because of a personal tragedy was only part of the real truth. However, like I said, I don't expect anyone to believe me. The only reason why I am even going into detail about my position is because naturally I would never twist anyone's tragedy for personal gain. I didn't even want to discuss any of this, but naturally if I'm discussing the problems WB has had with Snyder and Justice League, I guess this had to come up.

    Christopher, I have been a member of this board since 2001. I would never twist a personal tragedy to fit any conspiracy. I understand it would be impossible to take what I say as nothing more than conjecture, which is technically what it is at this point without further validation. However, I've been around long enough that I hope most people who know me know I wouldn't simply use someone's tragedy as a way to support any opinion or theory. We haven't interacted much in my time here, but for those that know me well (and who knows if they will actually even see this thread, or post) will know I have never done anything like this before. It's not in my nature. I am simply basing my opinion on what I have personally heard.
     
  6. JacksonArcher

    JacksonArcher Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I've read the whole article. Mark Hughes, who is a friend of mine, brings up interesting points. I don't necessarily agree with all of them, but I also understand where he is coming from.

    Also, without getting petty, it is amusing getting a lecture about nitpicking from you, Christopher, as I feel that is a lot of what you do on this forum. I guess the most appropriate euphemism (if I'm using that term correctly) would be 'pot calling the kettle black'. I picked the date as an example of how long the shoot will be. Batman-On-Film has said anywhere from "6 weeks or more", but Mark's figure was more accurate from what I have heard from my own personal sources.

    With all due respect, Christopher, I am fully aware of the creative process. I didn't need a lecture on it. I've been following the filmmaking process for the last fifteen years, and I've been in the filmmaking industry for the last decade. I will admit, if anything, your written presentation of the creative process was well-worded, if slightly redundant.

    I never said the change in composer was changing the story. I said it was changing the tone. There's a difference there, and I feel like you're grabbing onto certain meanings because it suits your argument more. If I wasn't clear before, let me be clear now:

    I don't expect Joss Whedon to completely change Zack Snyder's movie. I think what will likely happen will probably resemble the Rogue One reshoots that happened. I suspect 40% of the film will be changed. I know that's not a very specific way to quantify what will be altered, but that's because I don't know specifics myself. However, I do know Whedon is adding and changing significant scenes and moments (again, I can't provide links, but enough information is floating around to verify this without even quoting my sources).

    The fact he's bringing on Elfman, and replacing Holkenberg, is an indication of this. That is why I suspect WB will still stick to the November release date, although I wouldn't be surprised if it gets pushed back to March 2018. Whedon has done tentpoles before, and he was chosen partially because he can handle the workload of a major studio tentpole. I think from Whedon's additional material (which he is writing) and him over-seeing post-production (including editing, color correction, scoring, visual effects, etc.) he will significantly alter the tone and somewhat alter the direction of the film.

    I never said the process started with Whedon's hiring. As I said, this started when WB wanted to do a course correction on the direction of these movies. Geoff Johns worked closely with Snyder to rework the script with Chris Terrio back in the spring of 2016 after Batman v Superman received a backlash from critics and a certain (but sizable and vocal) group of fans. However, clearly that change in direction wasn't enough and a further change in tone and direction was needed, thus the hiring of Whedon as writer (for the additional material) and director.

    I've made a separate post to touch on why I do not believe I am incorrect or being insensitive, however I will admit I could have made some information known sooner. My apologies. I haven't posted regularly on this forum in a while, so sometimes I forget not all of you are aware of what I am aware of.

    Like I said, I don't think all of Snyder's material is being thrown out. I'm just saying when Justice League opens in November or March, it will be a completely different movie than the film Zack Snyder was directing, complete with different tone and, obviously, score.

    Is it routine for directors to get replaced this late in the process? Let's just say Snyder did simply leave because of a personal tragedy, and he wasn't experiencing problems with Warner Bros. which partially led to his departure. It is somewhat uncommon for a director of a major blockbuster tentpole to depart a film five months before release, with significant reshoots being done by a separate director who is over-seeing the remainder of post-production, which will indeed extensively alter the tone of the film and quite possibly the direction of the film.

    I agree reshoots are routine with these kind of big-budget films (and really, with any film), but to not admit that this situation is somewhat unique seems a bit biased and close-minded to me.
     
  7. Thestral

    Thestral Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It's also... somewhat uncommon... for a director of a major blockbuster tentpole to lose a child within a year before the film is released.

    Regardless of anything this is all rather ghoulish.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2017
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  8. faye valentfine

    faye valentfine Vice Admiral Admiral

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    You are literally claiming that Zack Snyder used his daughter's death to hide the fact the movie is in trouble and he was getting fired.

    What the actual fuck?
    Did you get vaccinated against empathy and common decency at an early age?

    EDITED to remove some saucy extra cussing which was my initial reaction to reading your bullshit. :klingon:
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2017
  9. Admiral_Young

    Admiral_Young Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    What JacksonArcher has posted is along the lines of what I have heard as well, and knowing him as well as I do now, he isn't degrading or using Zack's personal tragedy for any personal agenda or gain or degrading the Snyder's loss. I too have heard some interesting things regarding the production---even before what happened recently.
     
  10. faye valentfine

    faye valentfine Vice Admiral Admiral

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    One of the things I really love about BvS is the amount of detail and attention put into female characters... :shrug:
     
  11. JacksonArcher

    JacksonArcher Vice Admiral Admiral

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    dodge, I'm not saying the Snyder's did that. I am saying it was the studio's attempt to cover up the fact that they wanted to replace Snyder and didn't want a public backlash. After the divisive and polarizing response to the last three DCEU movies (this was before Wonder Woman opened), the last thing WB wanted was an even bigger backlash by letting Snyder go.

    I'm not sure how to word this properly, but Snyder's family tragedy happened at a time where WB was already considering what to do with Justice League, so it was a joined effort to say Snyder was leaving because of the tragedy. I understand how that looks and sounds, so like I said I don't blame anyone for not believing me. I appreciate Admiral_Young for stepping in and vouching for me. I would literally share conversations I had with someone who works at WB to back up what I am saying (so y'all don't think I'm some asshole) but obviously I have to protect the identity of my source. For what it is worth, Admiral_Young has seen said conversations. So I'm literally not making this up.

    All in all, this discussion is indeed rather ghoulish and I honestly regret even discussing this. However, like I said before, I am basing my opinions on what I've heard (and what Admiral_Young has heard) so that is why I felt the need to at least defend my position.
     
  12. faye valentfine

    faye valentfine Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Too late.
     
  13. JacksonArcher

    JacksonArcher Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I almost forgot why I avoided these boards for so long. Thanks for the reminder.
     
  14. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'm still pissed at the DCEU's use of Mercy.
     
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  15. Captaindemotion

    Captaindemotion Admiral Admiral

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    While this is an emotive issue, I know Jackson a little by being friends with him on Facebook. I've seen a lot of the stuff he posts, personal and otherwise, and I'm firmly of the view that he is a very decent, genuine and passionate person.

    Regardless of what is going on at WB, my heart goes out to Zack Snyder and his family.
     
  16. Captain of the USS Averof

    Captain of the USS Averof Commodore Commodore

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    Reactions and posts like those of JacksonArcher was exactly the reason why Snyder and his family couldn't mourn privately but had to make the tragedy that befell their family public. Which for me personally would also be devastating. And even then to get a response like that... It's sad really that we've come to this in this day and age. In the end who cares? It's just a fucking movie.
     
  17. JacksonArcher

    JacksonArcher Vice Admiral Admiral

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    For what it is worth, I didn't bring up the tragedy until people started personally attacking me. When news of what happened first broke, the only thing I added was that it was devastating and that my sincerest condolesences were with the Snyder family.

    Additionally, the Snyder's didn't come forward for months after Autumn committed suicide. They did deal with it privately, and chose to go public with the news 3 months after it happened. It is a tragedy, plain and simple. It's a delicate issue, but it is also difficult to discuss the film, the reshoots and what is happening without also discussing the nature of how the news was first released to the public, given how it is inextricably linked with this tragedy.

    Anyway, I don't mean to belabor this topic, so this will be the last time I discuss this particular issue.
     
  18. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Admiral Admiral

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    I'm sorry, dodge, but I have to agree with JacksonArcher here, that was totally uncalled for. I think that everyone on these boards gets that you love the DCEU. Anytime anyone raises the slightest criticism about the DCEU, you are almost always the first to jump in and defend it.

    Seriously, I get it. I equally love the MCU, but I'm not as blind to its faults as you seem to tend to be about the DCEU's. The actual Gods honest truth is that Zack Snyder's DCEU movies have had fundamental flaws that have a detrimental effect at the box office. WB understands this.

    The reality here is that more people than just JacksonArcher have been hearing these stories, and for long before Zack Snyder's personal tragedy. For you to insult him like that merely for passing on what he has heard through his legitimate connections is beneath all of us.

    @JacksonArcher -- Your input on these boards has been missed and is always welcome.
     
  19. JacksonArcher

    JacksonArcher Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Thanks, Turtletrekker. I really appreciate that.
     
  20. M.A.C.O.

    M.A.C.O. Commodore Commodore

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    I like to think that if the execs at WB were as dissatisfied with Snyder as people on the internet claim, they would've fired him or at least reduced his role before he started shooting JL back April last year.

    Instead, Zack stayed on and Geoff Johns and John Berg were promoted to executive producers on the DC films.


    I think we can all agree that Zack Snyder himself is and has been a distraction when it comes to these films. The line between criticism of his work and demagoguery of his character have been blurred since he did MOS. You have people in Hollywood who don't like his politics or philosophies. You have internet critics attacking him and his family as a way to attack his films. You have his films that people can't stop talking about, for good and for bad, and scores of articles praising and castigating his interpretations.

    Maybe removing him from the equation and creative process will calm the waters around WBs future movies.