Waters Of Mars Wins The Hugo
- Thread starter DWF
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Not really one of my favorite stories, but hey, I'll take the win!
About time RTD got one. He should have won for Midnight too, but I'll take the win here!
Next year I'm predicting it'll be a horse race between The End of Time (which I think wasn't eligible for this year's awards because part of it aired in 2010), Vincent and the Doctor and Amy's Choice. And unless it sucks utterly, Gaiman's episode has probably already been pencilled in on the 2012 nomination forums.
Alex
Next year I'm predicting it'll be a horse race between The End of Time (which I think wasn't eligible for this year's awards because part of it aired in 2010), Vincent and the Doctor and Amy's Choice. And unless it sucks utterly, Gaiman's episode has probably already been pencilled in on the 2012 nomination forums.
Alex
It was a weak field in the category this year:What?? Talk about undeserving. How did we go from a masterpiece like Blink to a halfway decent story with a minimal payoff as a Hugo winner? Methinks someone just wanted to give Russel his sympathy award...
- Doctor Who: "The Next Doctor" Written by Russell T Davies; Directed by Andy Goddard (BBC Wales)
- Doctor Who: "Planet of the Dead" Written by Russell T Davies & Gareth Roberts; Directed by James Strong (BBC Wales)
- Doctor Who: "The Waters of Mars" Written by Russell T Davies & Phil Ford; Directed by Graeme Harper (BBC Wales)
- Dollhouse: "Epitaph 1" Story by Joss Whedon; Written by Maurissa Tancharoen & Jed Whedon; Directed by David Solomon (Mutant Enemy)
- FlashForward: "No More Good Days" Written by Brannon Braga & David S. Goyer; Directed by David S. Goyer; based on the novel by Robert J. Sawyer (ABC)
I shudder to think that "The End of Time" will be nominated next year. I think "The Time of Angels" or "The Pandorica Opens" would be the likely winner next year -- unless something non-Who wins. I'm sorry, Alex, but "The End of Time" isn't even on the same continent as "The Pandorica Opens."
"Vincent and the Doctor" would be strong in the category. So, too, would "The Lodger."
Well I thought it was kind of stupid for the Doctor's greatest enemy races to surround him, not kill him and stick him in a box. That's my biggest problem with The Pandorica Opens, it makes no sense for them to have done that.
Well, they've been trying to kill him for years and that's never worked, so the box thing probably seemed worth a try.
Well I thought it was kind of stupid for the Doctor's greatest enemy races to surround him, not kill him and stick him in a box. That's my biggest problem with The Pandorica Opens, it makes no sense for them to have done that.
Well, they've been trying to kill him for years and that's never worked, so the box thing probably seemed worth a try.
The Pandorica wouldn't have killed him though it was meant to keep him alive not kill him.
I do agree that it's absurd that "Children of Earth, Day Four" didn't get a nomination. Though, as I think of it, it occurs to me that perhaps Children of Earth as a whole should have been nominated under the Best Dramatic Presentation, Long Form category. But I agree that "Day Four" should have won in Short Form.
Having said that, I think that "The Waters of Mars" is an absolutely brilliant episode that I just adore. Really, of the nominees, it deserves the award just for the Dalek fashback scene and the airlock scene alone.
"And what's going to save you?"
"Captain Adelaide Brooke."
Having said that, I think that "The Waters of Mars" is an absolutely brilliant episode that I just adore. Really, of the nominees, it deserves the award just for the Dalek fashback scene and the airlock scene alone.
"And what's going to save you?"
"Captain Adelaide Brooke."
Of all the DW specials up for the Hugo, "Water of Mars" isn't really the winner for me. I was board through most of it. I'd have gone with "The Next Doctor" or "Planet of the Dead."
Whereas, to me, it came across as restrained and utterly sad. It wasn't emotional wit; it was the Doctor, mourning the fact that a good woman had to die even as he talked to her. I thought there was nothing cheesy, nothing over-the-top, about it; it felt absolutely real and tragic to me. And it didn't seem to in any way glorify the character of the Doctor; if anything, it just made him seem impotent and unheroic, a man relying on someone else's decency to survive even as he did nothing to help her. It just made him seem real.
And that's cool that you saw so much depth there. I guess I didn't care about the woman, because I didn't know her. I'd only met her fifty minutes prior, and she'd been something of a bitch the whole time. Only Ten had told me how great she was. But, if I accepted Ten's notion of great, I would have to be in awe of every human being that passed in front of the camera for the previous four years. It was basic RTD by-the-numbers talk about someone being great, rather than taking the time to show me. By the time that airlock scene occurred, I was just ready to get to the regeneration...
And that's cool that you saw so much depth there. I guess I didn't care about the woman, because I didn't know her. I'd only met her fifty minutes prior, and she'd been something of a bitch the whole time. Only Ten had told me how great she was. But, if I accepted Ten's notion of great, I would have to be in awe of every human being that passed in front of the camera for the previous four years. It was basic RTD by-the-numbers talk about someone being great, rather than taking the time to show me. By the time that airlock scene occurred, I was just ready to get to the regeneration...
Ah, c'mon, man, give her some credit. Surely the commanding officer of the first permanent Martian settlement is worthy of some affection and respect right off the bat? I for one was already very interested in all of the Bowie Base One characters before the Doctor arrived.
It will be an absolute scandal if "Vincent and the Doctor" is not at least nominated. And, depending on what else gets nominated, if it does not win.
I feel much as you do, The. There are interesting pieces on the table in "The Waters of Mars," but they never come together properly.
The problem with the Doctor telling us how great Adelaide Brooke was, exactly as you say, that we didn't see what made her great. We needed more backstory on the character to invest in her greatness; a scene with a Dalek choosing not to kill her wasn't sufficient. Clearly, she'd done great things in her life, to bring her to that point in time and space -- commanding Bowie Base One, on another freakin' planet, isn't an honor handed to just anyone -- but the Doctor's reverence in her legend seemed to me to be based solely on that. And that wasn't enough for me. That would have been enough had she been, like anyone else on the base, a doomed crewmember of the lost expedition. For the dramatic co-lead, for the tragedy of the story to really work, I don't think it was enough.
I've argued before that what "The Waters of Mars" needed was Lady Christina -- and not just because of my fondness for Michelle Ryan. "The Water of Mars" needed a reason for the Doctor to give a damn, and the life of someone who traveled with him, someone he cared out, would have been a sufficient reason to make the final act work if Lady Christina was among those infected by the water monsters. For me, the final act doesn't work; the Doctor's turn to "Time Lord Victorious" is arbitrary and random, whereas if the Doctor realized that he could still save people, even though he had failed Christina, then the change in the Doctor's behavior would have been believable. But that would have required RTD to have an overarching plan for the specials, when he was really just making it up as he goes as The Writer's Tale: The Final Chapter shows.
I wasn't ready for Tennant to go, but RTD stayed too long.It was basic RTD by-the-numbers talk about someone being great, rather than taking the time to show me. By the time that airlock scene occurred, I was just ready to get to the regeneration...
Worthy of interest? Certainly. Worthy of affection? No.
Caring about the characters (audience affection, in other words) has to be earned through the writing and the performance. I don't feel that RTD's writing of the character (or the Doctor's reaction to the character) justified interest in Adelaide, and Lindsay Duncan didn't do a great deal to make her sympathetic.
Conceptually, she was an interesting foil for the Doctor. But she didn't click for me. *shrug*
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Part of the current running times curse. Its hard to work up a lot of interest for the guest stars in the 45 minutes allotted.
For me at least WoM was saved by the final ten minutes. Wondering if travelling alone was finally pushing him over the edge into meglomania.
Thats because the Doctor is a carrier of James Bond Syndrome. The harder you try to kill him, the more likely its going to rebound and fuck you up. But if you treat him with kid gloves, he's powerless.
Also, I guess the alliance thought they might have need of him someday in the future.
For me at least WoM was saved by the final ten minutes. Wondering if travelling alone was finally pushing him over the edge into meglomania.
Well I thought it was kind of stupid for the Doctor's greatest enemy races to surround him, not kill him and stick him in a box. That's my biggest problem with The Pandorica Opens, it makes no sense for them to have done that.
Thats because the Doctor is a carrier of James Bond Syndrome. The harder you try to kill him, the more likely its going to rebound and fuck you up. But if you treat him with kid gloves, he's powerless.
Also, I guess the alliance thought they might have need of him someday in the future.
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Yeah this is the issue I had with the specials, they just all seemed so unconected. I think they should have taken the budget and resources and time they had available and made a 5/6 episode mini season instead that could have aied up to and including Christmas. Lady Christina should have remained a companion until WOM, where like you say she should have been the one he tries to break all the rules to save. This might have made it all the more pertinant that the Doctor chooses to save Wilf later, giving 10 a heroic rather than a whiny end.
The specials were a wasted opportunity I think.
With the exception of the last ten minutes, The Waters of Mars didn't impress me so I can't say I'm all that thrilled by the win although it's good Doctor Who won yet again. I agree with others that the selection this year wasn't very good (I would have given the edge to The Next Doctor if only for the first half of the episode but pity about the second half) and I especially agree that Torchwood: Children of Earth's "Day Four" should have at least been nominated, let alone win. Alas.