Was "Voyager" as dark as "DS9"?

[RobNY]

I know both are darker than TNG.
But I know the common thing is Voyager is darker than TNG but not as dark as DS9. But some episodes of Voyager make me think it's on par with the more graphic episodes of DS9. "Scorpion" and "Living Witness" come to mind. "Scorpion" has some fairly graphic scenes (including Harry Kim getting hurt by one of the aliens).

 

[Feltman_Langer]

Mostly a big 'NO' but as you say the odd episode could/ can be dark as DS9

 

[Guy Gardener]

Neelix's lungs were taken by organ harvesters.

A different organ harvester was sweet on B'Elanna, who he had tied to a table, and she was offering rough sex to be released, but he didn't completely trust her not to break his spine over her knee until after he had sewn her friend's face on top of his own rotting face cavity, because its a face she trusts.

Janeway dressed up as a prostitute and acted slinky to break into an enemy fortress.

Visiting Space hero captain Ranson was hunting space dolphins, juicing them, and then pouring that space dolphin puree, into his gas tank to super charge his star ship.

Year of Hell actually lasted 200 years, the episode should have been called 200 years of hell.

Janeway cut a crewman in half for no reason once. SWISH!

The entire crew was raped by Caretaker in the pilot, by a rapist so dumb he couldn't tell the difference between a klingon double vagina, and a human male mono urethra, filling them both up to the brim with poisonous extradimensional radioactive splooge.

 

[RobNY]

Mostly a big 'NO' but as you say the odd episode could/ can be dark as DS9

Obviously the inter-character drama isn't there, but some episodes make me wonder.
Then again DS9 had non-white Latina Kira cuddling her white baby Ezra, so that show could be warm when it wanted to be.

 

[Ragitsu]

The entire crew was raped by Caretaker in the pilot, by a rapist so dumb he couldn't tell the difference between a klingon double vagina, and a human male mono urethra, filling them both up to the brim with poisonous extadimensional radioactive splooge.

Speaking of which...

TUVOK: I had thought we could get to know each other. Perhaps then our relationship would function more smoothly.
DALBY: Get to know each other? Okay, here's the brief history of Kenneth Dalby. We lived on the Bajoran frontier. It was a hard life. I coped by getting into a lot of trouble. I was angry at everybody and everything, till a woman came along and taught me about love. For a while, I wasn't angry any more. Three Cardassians raped her and smashed her skull. I joined the Maquis and tried to slaughter as many of them as I could find. How about you? Any family?
TUVOK: I do, but there is nothing to report about them that would compare with your story. I've observed that you seem to be somewhat protective of Mister Gerron. Have you formed a friendship with him?

This scene always stood out to me...both because Dalby's recounting of a gruesome event is so nonchalant and because Tuvok didn't bother addressing that motivation; as a Vulcan, Tuvok wouldn't be given to blatant displays of emotion, but he's not an imbecile either. Was the writer aiming for casual shock value? I think so.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Speaking of which...



This scene always stood out to me...both because Dalby's recounting of a gruesome event is so nonchalant and because Tuvok didn't bother addressing that motivation; as a Vulcan, Tuvok wouldn't be given to blatant displays of emotion, but he's not an imbecile either. Was the writer aiming for casual shock value? I think so.

Tuvok already knew that story.

He knew every thing about his class, or they wouldn't have been there, and also he would have made threat assessments on all the Maquis and Neelix, when deciding what jobs they were getting and how much faith he should have in this crew of terrorists not to wig out and go on a killing spree.

 

[Oddish]

VOY had some dark moments, it's true. "Tuvix", "Course: Oblivion", "Equinox", and "Repentance" to name a few. But on balance, I think that DS9 was darker.

 

[Orac]

Voyager probbly had the most horror episodes of any of the Star Trek spin-offs. They increased in number when Brannon Braga became head writer, I believe they were his specialty, and very good they were too. (IMO)

 

[Ragitsu]

TORRES: She's watching us again.
(Seven sits at a table.)
PARIS: You're imagining things.
TORRES: I don't think so.
PARIS: B'Elanna.
(Torres goes over to Seven.)
TORRES: Enjoying the view?
SEVEN: Explain.
TORRES: You've been staring at us all night. In fact, you were following us yesterday when we were walking to Engineering, and the day before when I was waiting for Tom outside the shuttlebay.
SEVEN: You are correct, I have been observing you. It's part of my research on human mating behaviour.
(Torres takes the PADD and reads.)
TORRES: Stardate 52647, fourteen hundred hours. Subjects quarrel in corridor outside female's quarters. Male returns with twelve flowering plant stems, species rosa rubifolia, effecting a cessation of hostilities. Stardate 52648, oh three hundred hours. Intimate relations resume. How the hell do you know when we're having intimate relations?
SEVEN: There is no one on deck nine section twelve who doesn't know when you're having intimate relations.
NEELIX: Is there a problem?
TORRES: I want all the data you've collected.
SEVEN: I haven't completed the study.
TORRES: Then study this. Borg provokes Klingon, Klingon breaks Borg nose.
NEELIX: B'Elanna.
TORRES: Call Sickbay. Tell them there's about to be a medical emergency.

Terrifying.

 

[Vger23]

"Dark" is such a relative term in the context of Star Trek.

I'd argue that neither DS9 nor VOY were inherently "dark" by virtually any accepted definition of the word. Neither is DSC or PIC for that matter, but that's a whole different argument with fans.

But, if you mean "darker / more mature themes relative to the rest of the franchise..." I'd say that there was no way VOY was ahead of DS9 in that category...at least not in any sustained way. It could be "dark" at times...but not for the long haul.

I'd say Trek's "darkest" chapters were probably:

1. Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
2. DS9's Dominion War arc
3. Elements of DSC Season 1's Klingon / MU arc
runner up: The Best of Both Worlds / Star Trek First Contact arc


Despite VOY's ability to "go dark" on occasion, I'd put it somewhere between TNG and TOS as a far more optimistic and "light" take on the Trek universe.

 

[at Quark's]

Terrifying.

Don't forgot the hair pasta fight between Neelix and Paris!

I still wake up screaming sometimes.

 

[Oddish]

Really. What a waste of perfectly good pasta.

 

[FederationHistorian]

If I were to rank the shows from light to dark ,

LD
TNG
VOY
TOS
ENT
PIC
DIS
DS9

Voyager is lighter than most shows in the franchise. But it has dark situations like DS9.

 

[at Quark's]

If I were to rank the shows from light to dark ,

LD
TNG
VOY
TOS
ENT
PIC
DIS
DS9

Granted, I have seen only the first season of Picard, but I thought it felt a good deal darker than DS9. That is, DS9 mostly featured well-intentioned people in dire situations (where they sometimes had to compromise their conscience), in Picard the heroes themselves (though not all of them) often felt quite cynica.

 

[FederationHistorian]

Granted, I have seen only the first season of Picard, but I thought it felt a good deal darker than DS9. That is, DS9 mostly featured well-intentioned people in dire situations (where they sometimes had to compromise their conscience), in Picard the heroes themselves (though not all of them) often felt quite cynica.

I think the presence of “Nepenthe” as an episode for PIC as a throwback to the TNG days, and the absence of a major war makes it not as dark as DS9. Although PIC seems to be a match with DS9 so far in a number of dark moments.

Destruction of Utopia Planitia – Attack on Earth and Cardassia

Displaced Romulans in the Romulan Free State – Bajoran Resistance, Maquis Resistance, and eventually, Cardassian Resistance

Elnor decapitating a Romulan - Nog loses his leg

Seven vaporizing Bjayzl – Dukat killing a pregnant Jadzia Dax

Federation Synth ban – Federation declaring martial law over Changeling infiltration

Federation standoff against Zhat Vash led by Riker – Bajoran blockade against Romulans led by Kira

The main difference is that PIC has only had one season, while DS9 had seven. And has yet to have a major war break out, a broken peace treaty with an ally like the Klingons, or even an episode like “Duet” or “In the Pale Moonlight”.

 

[Mathieu]

As a whole, probably not but I consider The Thaw and Meld to be among Trek's darkest/creepiest episodes ever released. They can easily compete with an episode like Hard Time.

 

[Lynx]

DS9 wasn't particularily "dark" compared to most of the doom-and-gloom TV-series of today.

DS9 had some "dark" epiodes but there were a lot of lighter epsiddes as well which prevented DS9 from becoming too dark.

Voyager had a few dark episodes too but not so many. "The Chute" is probably one of the worst. That episode sets of my "doom- and-gloom" alarm clock.

 

[Mathieu]

DS9 wasn't particularily "dark" compared to most of the doom-and-gloom TV-series of today.

Completely agree. Plus DS9 had characters like Quark, Rom (and even Odo, when paired with Quark), which managed to keep things light even when the general story was heavy. You don't have characters like that in darker sci-fi series like The Expanse, for instance.

 

[Ragitsu]

Dark S 9.

 

[Oddish]

Voyager had a few dark episodes too but not so many. "The Chute" is probably one of the worst. That episode sets of my "doom- and-gloom" alarm clock.

"Course: Oblivion" for me. That episode is 45 minutes of "midnight in a sea of black ink in a system where the sun burned out a billion years ago".