Spoilers Was Kirk depressed in Generations?

[Spock's Eyebrow]

Firstly, we see him blown out into space - he does not even try to survive the situation. How come?

How come he did not try to hang onto the ship instead of being blown out into space? Was it low stamina?

Did he simply give up and allow himself to be sucked out into space? Was he depressed? Did he want to be sucked out into space?

Later, he gives in to a few minor wounds under the collapsed bridge? How come he did not simply crawl out from under the bridge? Why did he choose to remain under the collapsed bridge?

 

[fireproof78]

Yes, he was depressed.

But, I highly doubt dropping Kirk off a cliff with a bridge falling on me would be recoverable.

 

[arch101]

Later, he gives in to a few minor wounds under the collapsed bridge? How come he did not simply crawl out from under the bridge? Why did he choose to remain under the collapsed bridge?

Minor wounds!?! ok, YOU go try hurtling off a cliff hanging onto a metal gangway. We'll see how minor your wounds are. Sure, he was bummed on the B, but he was all Kirk (maybe a little too much Kirk but retirement will do that to ya) in the end and gave it his all.

 

[urbandefault]

Firstly, we see him blown out into space - he does not even try to survive the situation. How come?

How come he did not try to hang onto the ship instead of being blown out into space? Was it low stamina?

Did he simply give up and allow himself to be sucked out into space? Was he depressed? Did he want to be sucked out into space?

Later, he gives in to a few minor wounds under the collapsed bridge? How come he did not simply crawl out from under the bridge? Why did he choose to remain under the collapsed bridge?

I'm about the same age Shatner was when the movie was filmed. He was doing a lot of physical stuff that would have me in traction afterwards.

In the movie, we never saw Kirk get blown into space. The energy ribbon damaged the ship and Kirk was pulled into the Nexus. I don't know about you, but I've never been on a space ship next to an unexpected hull breach. It's probably a bit surprising, and even if you had presence of mind to look for something to hold onto, there might not have been enough time -- or anything there to grab.

As for the bridge ... have you ever had a large hunk of metal land on you after falling even a few feet? I haven't, but I used to ride and regularly crash dirt bikes. Landing under heavy metal stuff hurts, and I'd imagine that depending on where it hit, it would cause massive internal damage.

Kirk was retired, probably a little out of shape. That shit happens when you get older. Factor that in.

I got the impression that he didn't really want to be there at the launch anyway.

So what was the point of the questions?

 

[Dukhat]

Firstly, we see him blown out into space - he does not even try to survive the situation. How come?

How come he did not try to hang onto the ship instead of being blown out into space? Was it low stamina?

Did he simply give up and allow himself to be sucked out into space? Was he depressed? Did he want to be sucked out into space?

Later, he gives in to a few minor wounds under the collapsed bridge? How come he did not simply crawl out from under the bridge? Why did he choose to remain under the collapsed bridge?

Okay, reading just the title of your post, I was assuming the topic was going to be about how Kirk was feeling before stepping foot onto the Enterprise-B. In which case, he was most definitely depressed. But all you're talking about is him getting blown out into space? What does that have to do with depression? Getting blown out into space was an involuntary thing. Kirk had no control over it. And we didn't even see it happening, so how do you know he didn't try to survive? Which, again, has nothing to do with depression.

 

[wayoung]

Kirk actually seems to have depression for the entire run of the TOS franchise. I remember posting this a few years ago in a similar thread about how he was depressed as an admiral:

Kir is unhappy doing anything. He complained about commanding a starship at least as often as he complained about not commanding a starship, probably more. He is/was/will be an unhappy dude, it's just hidden behind the ultra confident swagger, as shown multiple times in TOS.
He's lonely, blaming his position of Captain for his loneliness. It's probably why he formed such an emotional connection to an inanimate object to begin with. Why he was "a stack of books with legs" in the academy. Why he was willing to stay away from Carol and David. Why he has such a need for extreme adventure, to feel alive and give his life meaning and purpose. Because without it he had to face his own depression.

Kirk needs a prescription for SSRI's and weekly counselling sessions more than command of a starship. The latter is merely distraction.

 

[fireproof78]

Kirk needs a prescription for SSRI's and weekly counselling sessions more than command of a starship. The latter is merely distraction.

So, Kirk fits a pretty American stereotype right there.

 

[Kilana2]

Kirk was not Brian Brophy!

 

[Roboturner913]

I totes buy Kirk as a chronic depressive. His swashbuckling, going after green girls, not-giving-a-fuck act is all a giant compensation because he's dead inside....or perhaps, he's jus tsensory-seeking on the autism spectrum. Would end up manifesting itself in much the same way.

 

[Tenacity]

Did he simply give up and allow himself to be sucked out into space? Was he depressed? Did he want to be sucked out into space?

From the look on his face, Kirk was feeling a moment of victory after reprogramming the deflector which would save the ship.

Kirk saves the day ... once again.

I doubt Kirk had any say about being blown out the hull breach.

 

[Nyotarules]

Yeah, after being demoted he obviously took promotion again and was still unhappy. His personal life was shit, he hated his job and was probably estranged from his friends and all those ex girlfriends that were 'the love of his life'.

 

[Mojochi]

Okay, reading just the title of your post, I was assuming the topic was going to be about how Kirk was feeling before stepping foot onto the Enterprise-B. In which case, he was most definitely depressed.

^This. So much of this

I even go further to point out that his existence in the Nexus doesn't even really look like his best possible fantasy. All the things he's doing in there just seem like the sad thoughts of a man who wishes he were back being a heroic captain again. Surely if the Nexus is meant to give you what your deepest desire is, he'd have been actually captaining his ship, & not horse riding & log chopping, & planning to tell his lady that he wants to go back on the job

So I think the Nexus just gives you what you're currently most preoccupied with, when you enter. Hence why Picard is thinking about his family, the majority of whom had just burned to death, instead of his best destiny, also captaining.. It's kind of a tragic phenomenon actually, imprisoned to live out whatever fleeting notion you were preoccupied with when you fell into the damn thing. Sounds like a type of Hell to me

 

[F. King Daniel]

Later, he gives in to a few minor wounds under the collapsed bridge? How come he did not simply crawl out from under the bridge? Why did he choose to remain under the collapsed bridge?

When Spock was irradiated in Wrath of Khan, why didn't he just get up?

When Remmick had his head blown off and torso destroyed in "Conspiracy", why didn't he just get up?

Obvious troll is obvious

 

[DonIago]

I'm forced to agree on the trolling, especially given the OP's other threads.

 

[Dukhat]

^This. So much of this

I even go further to point out that his existence in the Nexus doesn't even really look like his best possible fantasy. All the things he's doing in there just seem like the sad thoughts of a man who wishes he were back being a heroic captain again. Surely if the Nexus is meant to give you what your deepest desire is, he'd have been actually captaining his ship, & not horse riding & log chopping, & planning to tell his lady that he wants to go back on the job

So I think the Nexus just gives you what you're currently most preoccupied with, when you enter. Hence why Picard is thinking about his family, the majority of whom had just burned to death, instead of his best destiny, also captaining.. It's kind of a tragic phenomenon actually, imprisoned to live out whatever fleeting notion you were preoccupied with when you fell into the damn thing. Sounds like a type of Hell to me

Yes, the Nexus was just a plot device, and not a very well thought out one. As you say, the only info we get about it is from Guinan, who says that it's basically where all your fondest wishes come true. Well, Kirk's fondest wish was to be in command of a ship again..."making a difference," as he himself stated. So what was the Nexus's fantasy for him? Being retired...the thing he hated the most. Why exactly was he out chopping wood? He should have been flying around in the TOS Enterprise when Picard found him.

 

[Mojochi]

Yes, the Nexus was just a plot device, and not a very well thought out one. As you say, the only info we get about it is from Guinan, who says that it's basically where all your fondest wishes come true. Well, Kirk's fondest wish was to be in command of a ship again..."making a difference," as he himself stated. So what was the Nexus's fantasy for him? Being retired...the thing he hated the most. Why exactly was he out chopping wood? He should have been flying around in the TOS Enterprise when Picard found him.

The thing is, I can imagine that it could be either. Apparently, Soren had his family back, & it was so blissful, & so painful to live without, that he'd destroy whole systems just to get back there, which is why it seems to me that the action of the Nexus is to be whatever the entrant was thinking about as they entered, like a telepathic snapshot at the moment of entry. If both Guinan & Soren had been thinking of things that were their perfect bliss, then they might've ended up with that, but Kirk & Picard clearly weren't thinking like that, as they went in

 

[Peach Wookiee]

Guys, since you've got a good conversation going, I'm leaving this open. Spock's Eyebrow, I admit to being slightly off this week, so I perhaps didn't see this as it is. You are hereby warned (again) for trolling.
Carry on, the rest of you.

 

[Mojochi]

Guys, since you've got a good conversation going, I'm leaving this open.

That was the idea. Lemonade from lemons

Anyhow... you have to wonder that since Guinan has an echo of herself (Or whatever) still in the Nexus, then does Picard also have a version of himself still in there, & would that version describe the Nexus differently than Guinan did? The scary thing is that while Kirk & Picard were in those odd fantasies, they did seem to be comforted by them in some way, even though they had minute gnawing suspicions that it was artificial, & found it easier to walk away from them than Soren & Guinan had described

Sometimes I think the Nexus is a mind, & that mind is just trying to find a way to give some sense of comfort to its inhabitants, however superficial that is, sort of like it's the opposite of the the Beta XII-A Entity from Day of the Dove, & is only interested in having the beings it exude comforted vibes.

 

[STEPhon IT]

From the look on his face, Kirk was feeling a moment of victory after reprogramming the deflector which would save the ship.

Kirk saves the day ... once again.

I doubt Kirk had any say about being blown out the hull breach.

Kirk's depression was about not being in command of the Enterprise, and sitting in that chair gave him a second of glee. Kirk should've took command of the Enterprise when he saw her Captain was slightly shaken by the Energy Ribbon, and when he asked for Kirk's suggestions. In a plot standpoint I still don't get why Scotty didn't go down the lower levels instead of Kirk but the story was meant to kill him off. I can't imagine the scenario would work if Spock and McCoy was originally written for ST VII: Generations; it would still feel out character for these character I love would act that way, and Spock... Spock would most likely been off the bridge before Kirk, and Harriman made their heroic decision. Kirk would ask Spock to leave the ship intact and he would not get a response. He's already there on the lower levels doing what Spock always has done throughout his career. The needs of many, outweigh the needs of the few... or the one.

 

[Mojochi]

Kirk's depression was about not being in command of the Enterprise, and sitting in that chair gave him a second of glee. Kirk should've took command of the Enterprise when he saw her Captain was slightly shaken by the Energy Ribbon, and when he asked for Kirk's suggestions. In a plot standpoint I still don't get why Scotty didn't go down the lower levels instead of Kirk but the story was meant to kill him off. I can't imagine the scenario would work if Spock and McCoy was originally written for ST VII: Generations; it would still feel out character for these character I love would act that way, and Spock... Spock would most likely been off the bridge before Kirk, and Harriman made their heroic decision. Kirk would ask Spock to leave the ship intact and he would not get a response. He's already there on the lower levels doing what Spock always has done throughout his career. The needs of many, outweigh the needs of the few... or the one.

However, in the context of Kirk being in retirement, & longing for the action again, it kind of does make some sense that he'd rush off to save the day, without giving anyone else the chance. He's hungering for the glory rush. I don't even think Spock could beat him to the punch under those conditions lol