Was Janeway Right in Helping the Borg?

[TedShatner10]

While Janeway could be a hypocrite and moral moron in her decision making, earning her a reputation of being a fruitcake in Trek fandom, but was she right in donating the nano-bomb technology to the Borg to stave off the invasion of Species 8472? The Borg were evil and during the course of the "Scorpion" two parter, deceptive, but Species 8472 couldn't be second guessed either and their designs on the wider Milky Way after annihilating the Borg were most likely not going to be benign.

 

[JB2005]

Not really. Her primary concern was getting her ship back to the AQ, that Species 8472 might have been worse than the borg was a justification that came later...

 

[Anwar]

Given that the 8472 aliens were omnicidal maniacs who were going to wipe out all life in the galaxy, it was really the choice of the lesser of two evils.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

Given that the 8472 aliens were omnicidal maniacs who were going to wipe out all life in the galaxy, it was really the choice of the lesser of two evils.

I agree with this. I think she was really between a rock and hard place with no way of knowing the Borg started the conflict. Knowing that up front would have changed many factors. However, she dealt with the evil she knew rather the one that she did not.

That being said, I'm not sure the Borg are evil. To be evil you have to have some kind of idea of what evil actually is. I think the Borg, as an entity, are move linear in what their end goal is, much like a machine running a basic program. They are programed to seek perfection through any means available to them and do so. But, to call them evil would imply they had a choice in the matter, which I do not think they do... as an entity.

 

[Nebusj]

That being said, I'm not sure the Borg are evil. To be evil you have to have some kind of idea of what evil actually is. I think the Borg, as an entity, are move linear in what their end goal is, much like a machine running a basic program. They are programed to seek perfection through any means available to them and do so. But, to call them evil would imply they had a choice in the matter, which I do not think they do... as an entity.

So ... they're not evil, they're just relentlessly destructive to every form of life in the Galaxy and can be fended off only with a recurring series of close calls? That doesn't seem to me like a distinction I really want to make. Conceivably they don't have the ethical awareness to be moral agents. But we are presented with them as entities made of the intellects of the billions of drones combined into one will, and able to think and plan and imagine based on that (thus the adaptability we see); can they have soaked up thousands of billions of creatures and not have picked up the notion of a moral code?

 

[Anwar]

No, they are evil. But they aren't Omnicidal maniacs out to annihilate the Universe either while the 8472 were.

 

[c0rnedfr0g]

That being said, I'm not sure the Borg are evil. To be evil you have to have some kind of idea of what evil actually is. I think the Borg, as an entity, are move linear in what their end goal is, much like a machine running a basic program. They are programed to seek perfection through any means available to them and do so. But, to call them evil would imply they had a choice in the matter, which I do not think they do... as an entity.

I agree. The Borg are like a disease or a virus; they do not have a malicious intent or a motivation other than to exist, survive, spread and thrive. They simply do what they're programmed for, and do it relentlessly. Their complete lack of compassion and emotion is what made them so frightful and intimidating initially... that is, until the Queen was introduced.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

So ... they're not evil, they're just relentlessly destructive to every form of life in the Galaxy and can be fended off only with a recurring series of close calls? That doesn't seem to me like a distinction I really want to make. Conceivably they don't have the ethical awareness to be moral agents. But we are presented with them as entities made of the intellects of the billions of drones combined into one will, and able to think and plan and imagine based on that (thus the adaptability we see); can they have soaked up thousands of billions of creatures and not have picked up the notion of a moral code?

Yes, they could have picked up all those lives and never developed a moral code. Reason being... they destroy that which does not get them closer to their designed programming. As the above poster said, they are a virus. A virus is not evil. It cannot be. It simply is.

You are assuming the Borg have some sort of code. The only code they have is to reach perfection through any means available. Nothing less, nothing more. They do not assimilate individual personalities, convictions, or ideals. They do not absorb social norms or laws. To reach their ends, they absorb technology. That is their only means. Everything else is irrelevant.

 

[c0rnedfr0g]

That's the great contradiction of the Borg: with all their technology and advancements, they are still incapable of comprehending or embracing even the simplest of emotions (except while in Unimatrix 0).

They are incapable of imagination and abstract thinking; conquering is all they can do, because with such a linear and limited thought pattern they cannot develop new technologies on their own.

 

[Brit]

That's the great contradiction of the Borg: with all their technology and advancements, they are still incapable of comprehending or embracing even the simplest of emotions (except while in Unimatrix 0).

They are incapable of imagination and abstract thinking; conquering is all they can do, because with such a linear and limited thought pattern they cannot develop new technologies on their own.

Right and therefore they would be strong only until they met the species they could not assimilate, or the one with the will power to resist. The moment they set foot in fluidic space their doom was set.

The Borg thought they were playing “no-Trump” where death conquers all even love. The universe however had other ideas and in the very beginning it stacked the cards and declared Hearts as the Trump suit.

Brit

 

[TariAdama]

Given that the 8472 aliens were omnicidal maniacs who were going to wipe out all life in the galaxy, it was really the choice of the lesser of two evils.

Better the Devil you know... and the Borg who are evil enough they are somewhat a devil that they know. Janeway was protecting her crew; her people and well she was somewhat justified....

 

[Anwar]

I do like how the VOY haters say that this was the perfect opportunity for a mutiny to stop Janeway. Do they really think that they'd be better off with the 8472 going nuts all over the Universe?

 

[Timofnine]

If Species 8472 could be negotiated with and a treaty formed (as was done in that crap Boothby episode that ruined them), then Janeway could have done the same in Scorpion.

She selfishly chose the easy solution, and took sides with the real Devil.

 

[TedShatner10]

If Species 8472 could be negotiated with and a treaty formed (as was done in that crap Boothby episode that ruined them), then Janeway could have done the same in Scorpion.

She selfishly chose the easy solution, and took sides with the real Devil.

Not really, since if Janwaay tried to reason with them in "Scorpion", a nine foot tall 8472 would likely snarl a bit then cut her in two. The Species 8472 cell commanded by the faux Boothby were posing as humanoids and their disguises were so effective they must've psychologically drifted away from the rest of their kind and became more approachable, much like the Kelvan humanoids did in "By Any Other Name" (the Kelvans in their original form were as similarily monstrous and alien as Species 8472).

 

[KimMH]

a plug for "A Singular Destiny" which puts a whole new spin on the Borg. Of course you have to start with the Destiny Trilogy. Crazy great Trek reading and a lot of loose ends tied up while more popping out. Some of the best TrekLit I've read in years and put me into a completely different mind about the Borg. In that light I say Janeway was right to try to work with the Borg. they're not pets; they're sentient beings and that's a whole can o' worms you might want to oepn.

 

[kimc]

While Janeway could be a hypocrite and moral moron in her decision making, earning her a reputation of being a fruitcake in Trek fandom,

A vocal minority can hardly speak for all of Trek fandom but whatever.

 

[Frazzled]

As I've just said elsewhere - her humaness in being stubborn and making some poor choices makes her more likable to me.

I wouldn't care much for a Captain that was a bit of a Mary Sue. I like my characters to be 'real'. Part of being real is cracking under the pressure sometimes, especially in a situation like Janeway faced.

 

[JB2005]

A vocal minority can hardly speak for all of Trek fandom but whatever.

Why not? It happens in every other thread

I think it would have been better if we had seen a situtation that Voyager couldn't deal with...

cue Janeway

"Okay folks, we're not going to be able to sort this one out, Mr Paris set course for the Gamma Quadrant, we'll just use the Bajoran Wormhole. And if I'd thought of that in the first place we'd actually be home by now, my bad"

or something to that effect, rather than inevitable technobabbley solution...

 

[Anwar]

The Bajoran Wormhole was also decades away from where they had appeared in the Delta Quadrant, and there was the off chance something may have happened to collapse it in those intervening decades.

 

[c0rnedfr0g]

The Bajoran Wormhole was also decades away from where they had appeared in the Delta Quadrant, and there was the off chance something may have happened to collapse it in those intervening decades.

That and I doubt The Dominion would take too kindly to a Federation ship passing through -- they may think it a spy. I realize the Dominion War hadn't started yet, but IIRC there was some tension.

Then again, VOY was able to survive just about anything, so perhaps they could've somehow defeated The Domionion single-handedly (nanoprobes, anyone?) ...