Vulcan Bullies

[Crewman47]

I was checking ST XI's entry on imdb.com there and I noticed that there are three characters credited as Vulcan Bully 1, 2 and 3 and I was wondering what there roles might be all about? I noticed that the actors playing the Vulcans are aged around 15 or 16 which could mean pre-SF Academy for Spock, if he's involved in something with them.

So what do you think, what part do you they'll be playing in the movie and do you think it will involve Spock somehow?

 

[Michael]

Have you seen TAS' Yesteryear? I think we'll see a similar scene.

 

[Crewman47]

I was thinking of that episode and I thought that it'd be a take on the same scene but because the characters may be older I thought it could be something different. Saying that it could be intersting if it were the same three Vulcans who bullied young Spock in that episode, provide a bit of conrtinuity between TAS and the new Movie.

 

[AlboOfBorg]

Maybe they're Romulans in disguise...?

 

[Franklin]

Maybe these bullies beat up the Romulans for being bald and different?

Something about a scene showing young Spock being bullied seems so cliche to me. So pat. Simplistic. Sure, if "it's done right," it could be poignant, tear-jerking, revealing. But still. The different kid is an outcast as a child. It's such an old chestnut.

The only way I'll accept the scene is if we see Quinto's Spock opening up to "Tony Gumas as the bartender" about it as he explores how alcohol affects his human side. Blubbering after his third Finnegan's Folly, he'll open up about being bullied as a child. [Insert flashback here.] Then, we come back to the bar and he starts going on about how his father doesn't love him. He becomes belligerent and starts shouting, "The women! Don't get me started about women!"
There. That about covers the bases and makes the point that Spock's different quite nicely for the non-fans. What fans will take note of is young Spock shouted so much because he was half-drunk back then as he tried to find himself.

 

[M'Sharak]

I was checking ST XI's entry on imdb.com there and I noticed that there are three characters credited as Vulcan Bully 1, 2 and 3...

So there's now a Bully # 3.

You might also want to look at the prior discussion of the Vulcan bully question in this thread.

 

[Crewman47]

Sorry I didn't realise this has been discussed so recent ago (thought it would be a small enough detail that I didn't bother to search for it). I'll leave it to you to decide if you want to let this thread continue or if you feel it should be closed in favour of the other thread.

 

[M'Sharak]

Might as well let this one continue, since that one hasn't been very active in the last week or so, but there may be material contained in the older thread which has bearing on this one. Just letting you know it's there, more than anything else.

 

[Samuel T. Cogley]

Shouting bullies, no doubt.

 

[T'Leisha]

I think its fairly obvious what the role of the bullies will be.
I always found the idea of a Vulcan bully something of a contradiction.
Someone should tell the bullies that its not very Vulcan of them, which is ironic considering that they're bullying Spock for not being very Vulcan.

 

[gastrof]

I think its fairly obvious what the role of the bullies will be.
I always found the idea of a Vulcan bully something of a contradiction.
Someone should tell the bullies that its not very Vulcan of them, which is ironic considering that they're bullying Spock for not being very Vulcan.

Of course, as we've seen from the examples of T'Pring and Stonn, there are some Vulcans who are anything but ideal examples of "Surak's teachings come to life".

 

[Tralah]

Like most children who are bullies, they would probably tease Spock when there weren't adults around to reprimand them with that logic.

 

[Starlock]

I know! I know!

There will be a big fight scene between young Spock and the 3 bullies!

But Spock is no match for them and is on the verge of passing out from his injuries!

But then a mysterious older Vulcan man shows up and takes the bullies out with Star Fleet martial arts.

You get the idea.

 

[maryh]

Of course, as we've seen from the examples of T'Pring and Stonn, there are some Vulcans who are anything but ideal examples of "Surak's teachings come to life".

"Being Vulcan means to adopt a philosphy which is logical and beneficial. We cannot disregard this merely for personal gain..."

Vulcans are no different than humans in that some of them will pick and chose the tenets of their philosophy which are the most beneficial to themselves, and disregard them when they aren't so beneficial to themselves. Not everyone is equally noble in doing what is best for the whole. For Vulcans there are times when their ideals might clash with each other. Logic and pacifism can be at odds with each other under some circumstances for example. A Vulcan when rejecting emotion might reject a human half-breed like Spock as an inherently emotional being therefore inferior. In bullying the emotional being they may think they are defending a threat to logic, the ultimate goodness in their society. We, as humans, of course "know" there probably are other motives involved but they as Vulcans can't detect or understand them. Logic isn't perfect, it lacks compassion, empathy and mercy which a philosophy of pacifism cannot make up for. Vulcan bullies are a prime example of the shortcomimgs of logic coupled with simple pacifism.

 

[maryh]

Like most children who are bullies, they would probably tease Spock when there weren't adults around to reprimand them with that logic.

As a parent I have seen though how some parents will indirectly encourage bullying in their own children. Parents will exclude a few kids from parties, not stopping the teasing, blaming the victim for "asking for it", encouraging dishonest competition etc. It usually has the desired effect the parent wants -- his own kids gets ahead. Fortunately bullying can have the opposite effect though - the bullied kids gets stronger and develop character because of the obstacles they had to overcome and can surpass their tormentors big time.

 

[Gepard]

Shouting bullies, no doubt.

OF COURSE.

 

[Tralah]

Like most children who are bullies, they would probably tease Spock when there weren't adults around to reprimand them with that logic.

As a parent I have seen though how some parents will indirectly encourage bullying in their own children. Parents will exclude a few kids from parties, not stopping the teasing, blaming the victim for "asking for it", encouraging dishonest competition etc. It usually has the desired effect the parent wants -- his own kids gets ahead. Fortunately bullying can have the opposite effect though - the bullied kids gets stronger and develop character because of the obstacles they had to overcome and can surpass their tormentors big time.

Very true. It wouldn't surprise me in the least that there would be some Vulcan bigots who would indirectly "condone" the teasing of a mixed breed child. It's unfortunate to think that such bigotry exists in the futre, but we've been shown examples throughout Star Trek entirety that there are still people have racist beliefs and feelings. Star Trek definitely shows us an optimistic future, but not a perfect one.

 

[M'Sharak]

Shouting bullies, no doubt.

OF COURSE.

 

[Gepard]

 

[Carpe Occasio]

Vulcanbillies. Are they like banjo playing Vulcans?

Oh wait, you said Vulcan bullies.

Never mind.