Vessel dimensions & masses

[Bill Morris]

Here's a chart generated from the scripts for the MSD-style information displays in my LCARS system. It's often hard to get good information, and maybe I can get some help here.

I have a gallery of those displays here (with these figures near the bottom of each screen), although I haven't updated the gallery with the latest changes in figures for mass taken from two recent Trek Tech threads from the last couple of days yet. The chart below, however, does show those latest figures.

Gallery: Starfleet Schematics
http://lcars24.com/starfleet.html

The dimensions for the Nebula class are based on it's having the same saucer width as the galaxy class, despite the variety of figures for that around the Web.

 

[JNG]

I'll just throw out that the Ambassador may be headed for a resizing in light of all this here whatnot.

 

[Bill Morris]

Good one. Okay. So Mike Okuda, Rick Sternbach, and Doug Drexler all agree on changing the overall length of the Ambassador class to 478.5 meters, based on new measurements and calculations. I'll update that accordingly.

 

[SicOne]

JNG, thanks for the new addition of information.

 

[GodThingFormerly]

If I may quote Jesco von Puttkamer's German-language translation/expansion of Gene Roddenberry's ST:TMP novelization (Star Trek: Der Film, Moewig Verlag, 1980):

"Langsam umrundeten sie das gigantische weiße Schiff: seine elegant gewölbte, 146 Meter weite, scheibenförmige Primärhülle, die geschweifte, an einen Schiffssteven erinnernde Verbindungs- „Finne“ zur langgestreckten zigarrenförmigen Sekundär- oder Maschinenhülle, und die beiden 155 Meter langen, je 31 000 Tonnen schweren Haupttriebwerksgondeln an ihren schräggestellten, 60 Meter langen Auslegern. Die Länge des gesamten Schiffes maß 305 Meter, sein Gewicht betrug 190 000 Tonnen."

"Slowly they circled the huge white ship: the elegantly arched 146 meter wide disc-shaped primary hull, the curved, prow-like "fin" connecting it to the cigar-shaped secondary or engineering hull, and the two 155 meter, 31,000 ton main engine nacelles mounted on their sloping 60 meter long pylons. The entire length of the ship measures 305 meters, its weight 190,000 tons." (*)

Take from that what you will.

TGT

* Any native German speakers passing through this thread are, of course, more than welcome to correct my undoubtedly clunky translation.

 

[aridas sofia]

^ I've really got to get that German translation by JvP.

And then have endless headaches trying to figure out what it says.

 

[DaveyNY]

Are we really gonna quibble over 2/10ths of a meter?

And a mere 20,000 metric tons?

>snicker<

 

[GodThingFormerly]

I've really got to get that German translation by JvP.

Just make absolutely certain that you get the 1980 "Playboy Film" edition (which includes a foreward by von Puttkamer) and not the 1992 Heyne edition which was translated by Andreas Brandhorst.

And then have endless headaches trying to figure out what it says.

If I may recommend this book and a good dictionary, you should be able to get a sufficiently strong grasp of the language within, say, three months if you devote about 30 minutes a day to the exercises. After that you can also read the unadulterated version of JvP's The 23rd Century: A Vision for Star Trek reprinted as Chapter 30 in his Der erste Tag der neuen Welt (Umschau Verlag, 1981).

TGT

 

[aridas sofia]

I fortunately have a minimal grasp (you pick that up if you spend any time at all in Jutland) -- enough to not totally flounder when I've been in Germany. But as I'm sure you have discovered, it's one thing to have any ability to understand what you hear, and another to be able to read (and another thing yet again to be able to speak or write).

 

[Bill Morris]

I thought 240,000 metric tons for the TOS Enterprise was reasonable, based on its volume. I guess that's why I'm still squeamish about 190,000. Maybe I should invest in a model and measuring tank.

Anyway, here's one more:

 

[GodThingFormerly]

I thought 240,000 metric tons for the TOS Enterprise was reasonable, based on its volume. I guess that's why I'm still squeamish about 190,000. Maybe I should invest in a model and measuring tank.

I don't see any reason for squeamishness. After all, it's not like the densities of "duranium" and "tritanium" have ever been stated on (or off) screen.

Anyway, here's one more:

Nice, but I why would a fission-energized interplanetary transfer vehicle require solar photovoltaic arrays? Considering their extremely small surface area and placement near the engine pod I think it is somewhat more likely that Matt Jefferies intended those things to function as the radiator component of the DY-100's thermal control subsystem.

TGT

 

[Bill Morris]

Nice, but I why would a fission-energized interplanetary transfer vehicle require solar photovoltaic arrays? Considering their extremely small surface area and placement near the engine pod I think it is somewhat more likely that Matt Jefferies intended those things to function as the radiator component of the DY-100's thermal control subsystem.

TGT

Maybe so. They are certainly small in relation to the power requirements. The Jackill blueprints label them as solar panels. So do the Gilso schematics, here:

http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/blueprints/gilso/botanybay-04.jpg

This one calls them reactor cooling vents, though, but shows solar arrays on the midship winglike portions of the hull:

http://tatooine.fortunecity.com/herbert/305/dy100.htm

But your suggestion seems logical to me.

 

[Rick Sternbach]

Good one. Okay. So Mike Okuda, Rick Sternbach, and Doug Drexler all agree on changing the overall length of the Ambassador class to 478.5 meters, based on new measurements and calculations. I'll update that accordingly.

We don't all agree on changing the length of the Ent-C to 478.5 meters. Mike wants to leave it where it is, and I don't think Doug has expressed an opinion. Gary Kerr and I discussed the model and how my original blueprints got enlarged, probably by the VFX office, before they got to Greg Jein. Gary and I now maintain that the model still represents a ship that is 478.5 meters in length, and that the model is a different scale from the four foot Ent-D. And that's the breaking starship news up to the moment.

Rick
www.spacemodelsystems.com

 

[Bill Morris]

Fair enough.

Here's the quote from the article JNG linked above, from the Drex Files, which includes some beautiful photos of the fliming model, and some of Rick's design drawings.

I've recently e-mailed both Mike Okuda & Rick Sternbach regarding the theoretical length of the Ent-C. I’ve got the plans that Greg Jein used to build his model of the C, and the set includes both Rick’s original blueline plans and Greg’s enlarged xeroxes. I measured the side profile of the C in the blueline, which is in scale with the 4 ft Ent-D, and got an overall length of one gnat less than 35.75″. If you take a 48″ Ent-D model & 2108′ theoretical Ent-D, then use proportions on a 35.75″ Ent-C plan, you get a length of 1570.02 feet/478.55 meters for the theoretical Ent-C.

After checking with Mike & Rick, we've agreed that the “retro-canon” length of the Ent-C is 1570 feet/478.5 meters. The length given in the ST Encyclopedia is simply a mistake. Thus canon is given; thus canon is taketh away.

And that’s all I’ve got!

Gary

Rick, and Gary, thanks so much for taking time out of your busy schedules! --Drex

From that, I thought there was consensus.

Thanks for the clarification, Rick.

Anyway, if it is 478.5, then I guess it comes out like this:

Ambassador class
Length: 478.5 M
Beam: 292.92 M
Height: 116:44 M
Mass: 2,787,00 M.T.

 

[SicOne]

That explanation sounded good to me.

Not as acrimonious as the 120m vs 170m Defiant arguments used to be, but...

Did you change the Ambassador MSD to fit, LCARS 24?

 

[Bill Morris]

That explanation sounded good to me.

Not as acrimonious as the 120m vs 170m Defiant arguments used to be, but...

Did you change the Ambassador MSD to fit, LCARS 24?

The deck layout is still okay with those dimensions. I just have to downsize the shuttles a tad, keeping in mind 2.8 meters in height for the class 8. That's easy enough.

At the moment I'm torturing over the layout and details of a Peregrine MSD, with a not a lot out there to go on other than exterior clues.

 

[SicOne]

I do not envy you that task, my friend. There's almost no information on that class at all to go on.

 

[SicOne]

Regarding the Nebula, how did you arrive at 444m long x 464m wide x 133m draft, and 4.7 million tons? Starship Spotter gives 465m long x 467.1m wide x 140.5m draft, and 3.309 million tons. Ex Astris gives 440m long for the triangular pod-version, and 465m for the AWACS pod-version. I have seen statistics giving a 318m width for the Nebula, but that's incompatible with a Galaxy saucer.

 

[Bill Morris]

The dimensions for the Nebula are based on its having the same saucer width as the Galaxy class and taking measurements from that there. The Peregrine about done and has its own thread here in Trek Tech.

 

[JNG]

If the density of a Nebula-class ship was the same as that of a Galaxy-class ship, then her mass would be a little over 3,800,000 tons. I think she is slightly more dense than that, and suggest 4,000,000 metric tons as my favorite kind of nice and round number: the justifiable kind.

That's working off 5,000,000 tons for the Galaxy, which I believe Andrew Probert intended and shows up on the Ed Whitefire blueprints and so forth. If anyone wants to work to justify the 4.5 million figure in DS9 TM (as if its other mass figures weren't goofy enough to remove all temptation to do so), there's a paragraph right above it about launching Galaxy-class ships with lots of their interior volume empty that works great.