USS Vengeance design in light of Discovery

[Syd Shanshala]

(If this isn’t the right place for this thread I apologize moderators please move it to where it best fits)
Seems like the dreadnought class would make much more sense having been built post discovery’s Klingon war. Although Marcus’s dialogue makes it rather clear there wasn’t an all out war with the Klingons in the Kelvin timeline, I still like to believe the Vengeance was a direct result of starfleet getting its butt kicked in 2257. Maybe Section 31 took tech from the Discovery herself and modified them for use on the dreadnought class. Those gaps in the Vengeance saucer as well as her insane speed capability could be directly linked to the spore drive tech.
Anyone have any thoughts about this?
I know I’m reaching here.

 

[pst]

it's a reach, especially given star trek: discovery's general tendency to discard as much of the kelvin timeline as possible (potentially for legal purposes).

but i appreciate that they knowingly or unknowingly incorporated elements of the vengeance into the design of the discovery. discovery definitely fits in the kelvin timeline design lineage way more easily than the prime timeline.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Wasn't John Eaves responsible for both designs?

Also note the similarity on the bridge - the bank of purple blinkies behind the Vengeance command chair (described as it's "computer brain" in set plans) and the similar bank in one of the alcoves behind the captain's chair on the Discovery.

it's a reach, especially given star trek: discovery's general tendency to discard as much of the kelvin timeline as possible (potentially for legal purposes).

Like what? There's a very strong visual link between the two, both in ship/set design and Earthside cities and "Lethe" was an unofficial prequel to Spock's "Live long and proper!" FU in 2009 Star Trek.

 

[pst]

Wasn't John Eaves responsible for both designs?

james clyne designed vengeance i believe.

Like what? There's a very strong visual link between the two, both in ship/set design and Earthside cities and "Lethe" was an unofficial prequel to Spock's "Live long and proper!" FU in 2009 Star Trek.

yeah but they abandoned the hanging cities on vulcan. they also dropped the USS kelvin uniforms in favor of stepping back to something more reminiscence of star trek: enterprise. the USS kelvin herself doesn't fit into the universe at all. they recast pike, amanda grayson, sarek. the klingons are not consistent with the ones in star trek into darkness, designed by the same guy to boot.

these are deliberate steps away from the kelvin timeline. you are correct that there is a resemblance, but i think it has more to do with what looks good and what is stylish now than that it's an embrace of what the films have been doing.

 

[Timo]

In purely in-universe terms, as per the original question, the two timelines diverged in 2233. DSC now tells us that Klingons were not perceived to be a threat at that time. So the decision to go for the Vengeance or her ilk probably came later.

The villain-ship of ST:ID was finished to specs derived from consulting Khan, only a few years before the launch of the vessel. It would seem reasonable to assume that the ship herself had been designed and even under construction long before that, considering even the smaller Enterprise took more than three years to complete with the tech of that day after her hull was more or less ready. But it is also perfectly possible that an incident with the Klingons took place in both timelines around 2256, and unnerved Admiral Marcus enough to start building the ship.

I mean, if the Klingons did keep to themselves until 2256, Nero's timeline messing would have little impact on them. T'Kumva would hate the Feds and would have access to his dad's old ship and the Light of Kahless in both timelines. Only his great plan of having war would flop in the Kelvin timeline, so that only the top brass of Starfleet would become aware of how close they had been to an all-out war they could very well lose.

The jury is still out on whether the Prime timeline has big ships other than the Kelvin, and then the Excelsior. But there's nothing so far to force us to think that DSC isn't either Prime or then Prime-with-the-usual-caveats (actor changes, slight visual differences, nothing different plotwise). And the Vengeance and other ships of her class could have been built in all timelines, only the time and manner of their exposure to the public (if any) would vary.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I still have issue with that giant gap in the Saucer Section, other than that, I really do love the the USS Vengeance design.

But that bloody gap is stupid.

 

[Markonian]

When I first saw detailed images of Shepard class and co, I thought their design language, esp. the nacelles, bear family resemblance to the Vengeance.

I just take it that it’s the same era, so we have some commonalities across the timelines despite the divergent history.