Universal Translator likes suspense lol

[Garak007]

We all know the Universal Translator is there to translate different alien languages to the person who is receiving the speech or even to the viewer. What I don't understand sometimes during a transmission we have a lack of translation. Good example of this is during the episode of Way of the Warrior. We have Gowron and General Martok talking a mix of English and Klingon. Yet in Star Trek 6 Chang was talking with his fellow Klingons in Klingon on Bird of Prey all the time and we have the translation done in subtitles which makes more sense.

I know this has happened more than one occasion but this is about the best example I can find. Aliens should always be talking in their native language unless there is a human around to translate it in my view. Unless it it's done for the suspense value

 

[sbk1234]

The same could be said for any World War II movie where the Germans are shown speaking English with a German accent.

 

[Garak007]

The same could be said for any World War II movie where the Germans are shown speaking English with a German accent.

Well that is not really the same thing because they are not mixing up an alien language with an Earth language might also be a German was talking English to an English person. He would not do the same to a fellow German in World War II unless it was for a reason.

Why would a Klingon talk an Earth language with a fellow Klingon makes no sense.

 

[RegFan]

Aliens should always be talking in their native language unless there is a human around to translate it in my view. Unless it it's done for the suspense value

I agree, as that would be more realistic.

I like to think that when there are no humans around, the aliens are actually talking in their native language and their speech is translated for the benefit of the audience. As for why they sometimes talk in a mixture of English and and their native language, perhaps the universal translator is some kind of brain implant and they can decide whether or not their speech is translated.

 

[Shazam!]

Good example of this is during the episode of Way of the Warrior. We have Gowron and General Martok talking a mix of English and Klingon.

Maybe Gowron turned it off the UT at that moment. For a laugh or something.

 

[THE_FETT]

The UT is just a ridiculous way of trying to explain something that doesn't need explained. Everyone speaks English for the sake of the audience and they should've just never even addressed why. I always liked when someone like Worf would say something like, "I must now endure the k'th p'tawng!" and then he would translate it himself, "The pain ritual" like the UT refuses to translate certain phrases.

 

[Garak007]

The UT is just a ridiculous way of trying to explain something that doesn't need explained. Everyone speaks English for the sake of the audience and they should've just never even addressed why. I always liked when someone like Worf would say something like, "I must now endure the k'th p'tawng!" and then he would translate it himself, "The pain ritual" like the UT refuses to translate certain phrases.

Indeed, in Way of the Warrior again even through the view screen Worf had to transulate a saying when Gowron said "perhaps today is a good day to die" and yet there was no problem for the rest of the converstation.

 

[DevilEyes]

The UT is just a ridiculous way of trying to explain something that doesn't need explained. Everyone speaks English for the sake of the audience and they should've just never even addressed why. I always liked when someone like Worf would say something like, "I must now endure the k'th p'tawng!" and then he would translate it himself, "The pain ritual" like the UT refuses to translate certain phrases.

Actually that's one of the few things about the UT that make sense. Realistically, it shouldn't be working half as good as it does in the show. And some words, phrases and idioms would just not be in its dictionary database, so it would leave them untranslated. You know, just like Google or Babelfish translates a text and it looks like this:

"The Spanish began with little luck the day, because the first party was posponed due to an intense rain that fell right to the hour programmed for the encounter, after receso naturañ, the players appeared in the field, where after 90 minutes of action, the Israeli undid of his Iberian."


Of course, the UP is supposed to translate much better, but you get my meaning.

 

[THE_FETT]

The UT is just a ridiculous way of trying to explain something that doesn't need explained. Everyone speaks English for the sake of the audience and they should've just never even addressed why. I always liked when someone like Worf would say something like, "I must now endure the k'th p'tawng!" and then he would translate it himself, "The pain ritual" like the UT refuses to translate certain phrases.

Actually that's one of the few things about the UT that make sense.

It makes sense that a sophisticated program that can translate millions of languages by using brain wave patterns and syntax morphologies can't translate "ritual of pain" but Worf can? Please.

Realistically, it shouldn't be working half as good as it does in the show.

Wait; did you just say "realistically" about a totally fictional device that no one can possibly know how it would actually work in any way, shape or form?

 

[The Wormhole]

One of my favourite "magical translations" was the Enterprise episode Carbon Creek. A Vulcan crew in the 1950s is at Earth studying Sputnik. But they crash in the US and somehow can speak perfect English right away. How is this possible? Since they were studying a Soviet satellite the only Earth language these Vulcans should have picked up is Russian.

At the very least, showing the Vulcans walking into an American towm in the 50s speaking Russian would have made the episode a lot more interesting than it was.

 

[T'Girl]

As for why they sometimes talk in a mixture of English and and their native language ...

Where one word in a language directly translates into a single word in another the universal translator does great. I think the UT continues to have problems where a word translates into one of multiple words depending on the intent of the speaker or where a word refers to a concept.

Perhaps the translator emits a musical tone in your head if you use a word that refers to a concept and the UT would have to give the listener a five minute explanation as to what the word means.

And what if the the race of the person to whom your speaking to completely lacks the words in their language that corresponds to the words you're using? It's possible that modern Vulcan lacks all but the most basic words that refer to emotions, they just don't need them.

"So I (emotional reference) (emotional reference) (emotional reference) (emotional reference), and then she (emotional reference) (emotional reference) (emotional reference), you have knowledge of my meaning?"

The Vulcan slowly lifts her eyebrow.

 

[DevilEyes]

The UT is just a ridiculous way of trying to explain something that doesn't need explained. Everyone speaks English for the sake of the audience and they should've just never even addressed why. I always liked when someone like Worf would say something like, "I must now endure the k'th p'tawng!" and then he would translate it himself, "The pain ritual" like the UT refuses to translate certain phrases.

Actually that's one of the few things about the UT that make sense.

It makes sense that a sophisticated program that can translate millions of languages by using brain wave patterns and syntax morphologies can't translate "ritual of pain" but Worf can? Please.

It makes sense that it wouldn't be able to translate millions of languages half as good as it does.

Realistically, it shouldn't be working half as good as it does in the show.

Wait; did you just say "realistically" about a totally fictional device that no one can possibly know how it would actually work in any way, shape or form?

Yes, I did say "realistically". You know, realism in fiction? Ever heard of the concept?

As for why they sometimes talk in a mixture of English and and their native language ...

Where one word in a language directly translates into a single word in another the universal translator does great. I think the UT continues to have problems where a word translates into one of multiple words depending on the intent of the speaker or where a word refers to a concept.

Perhaps the translator emits a musical tone in your head if you use a word that refers to a concept and the UT would have to give the listener a five minute explanation as to what the word means.

And what if the the race of the person to whom your speaking to completely lacks the words in their language that corresponds to the words you're using? It's possible that modern Vulcan lacks all but the most basic words that refer to emotions, they just don't need them.

"So I (emotional reference) (emotional reference) (emotional reference) (emotional reference), and then she (emotional reference) (emotional reference) (emotional reference), you have knowledge of my meaning?"

The Vulcan slowly lifts her eyebrow.

Yes, that's how it would realistically work.

Unless one thinks that realism has no place in fiction, and science fiction should feature magic. So why not have the UT always work perfectly, if it is a magical device...

 

[Pauln6]

At least Trek pays lip service to the idea. While I agree that B5 dealt with the issue a bit better (although aliens when together have their native tongue translated for the viewer) Stargate 'forgot' that aliens don't all speak English.

 

[The Wormhole]

Stargate 'forgot' that aliens don't all speak English.

Stargate is very inconsistent with alien languages. Actor Michael Shanks even pointed out on a DVD commentary about the Goa'uld and Jaffa speak exclusively English when among each other, but when around humans they toss in words from their own language.

Then there's the Wraith who don't even seem to have their own spoken language.

Now they're trying to be logical and not have the Somberoids on SGU speak at all, having them communicate telepathically instead.

 

[Pauln6]

Stargate 'forgot' that aliens don't all speak English.

Stargate is very inconsistent with alien languages. Actor Michael Shanks even pointed out on a DVD commentary about the Goa'uld and Jaffa speak exclusively English when among each other, but when around humans they toss in words from their own language.

Then there's the Wraith who don't even seem to have their own spoken language.

Now they're trying to be logical and not have the Somberoids on SGU speak at all, having them communicate telepathically instead.

I've been so impressed with the attention to detail on SGU - it's such a shame that so many people can't cope with the slower pace. The human(oid)-centric approach of Star Trek gets very boring. Among my favourite aliens are the Vorlons, Shadows, Taelons (season one obviously), pak'mar'a, and the creatures in Aliens.

 

[scotpens]

One of my favourite “magical translations” was the Enterprise episode Carbon Creek. A Vulcan crew in the 1950s is at Earth studying Sputnik. But they crash in the US and somehow can speak perfect English right away. How is this possible? Since they were studying a Soviet satellite the only Earth language these Vulcans should have picked up is Russian.

I'm not familiar with the episode in question, but if I were a time-traveling alien studying Earth's early space efforts, I'd probably try to learn at a bit of English (and perhaps French and German as well) to understand what was happening in the global scientific community. After all, nobody would be able to “pick up” Russian from signals received or transmitted by Sputnik. The world's first artificial satellite only beeped.

At the very least, showing the Vulcans walking into an American towm in the 50s speaking Russian would have made the episode a lot more interesting than it was.

“Holy hell, we've been invaded by the Rooskies! And they've got POINTED EARS!”

 

[THE_FETT]

It makes sense that it wouldn't be able to translate millions of languages half as good as it does.

To even make that claim you'd have to know specifically and technically how a Star Trek UT works. And since it's a fictional device with no technical basis in reality there's no way you can legitimately comment on how it should realistically work or how it "makes sense"

Yes, I did say "realistically". You know, realism in fiction? Ever heard of the concept?

Yeah. It means, there's no sound in space. It doesn't mean "this is how a completely fictional device technically works" since you've got no frame of reference whatsoever from which to draw your conclusions.

Yes, that's how it would realistically work.

No.

Unless one thinks that realism has no place in fiction, and science fiction should feature magic. So why not have the UT always work perfectly, if it is a magical device...

THE FETT whips his blaster from its holster with lightning speed and shoots DevilEyes between the DevilEyes; spinning the blaster back into its holster before the body hits the ground

 

[DevilEyes]

It makes sense that it wouldn't be able to translate millions of languages half as good as it does.

To even make that claim you'd have to know specifically and technically how a Star Trek UT works. And since it's a fictional device with no technical basis in reality there's no way you can legitimately comment on how it should realistically work or how it "makes sense"

Yes, I did say "realistically". You know, realism in fiction? Ever heard of the concept?

Yeah. It means, there's no sound in space. It doesn't mean "this is how a completely fictional device technically works" since you've got no frame of reference whatsoever from which to draw your conclusions.

Yes, you have. Things like real science, real life... It's very easy to see what is likely to work and what is not. A device able to perfectly translate everything in any language to any other language, even though it is not AI? Not possible. That would only work if every word and expression in a language had a one-on-one correlation in another language. No words with multiple meanings, no words and idioms without a corresponding word or equivalent in another language, nothing that depends on context... How likely are you to find two such languages? Even less likely between languages from completely different cultures: the Ferengi are likely to have many more words and expressions related to finances and accounting than most other cultures, the Klingons are likely to have many more words and expressions related to war, fighting and weapons, the Vulcans are likely to lack many words and expressions related to emotional states, etc.

We all know that it only works so MAGICALLY well as an excuse to have everyone speaking English.

Which is why it's hilarious when someone's only problem with the UT is that it cannot always translate every word. We're used to it working magically, we don't want any realism to come into it!

Yes, that's how it would realistically work.

No.

Unless one thinks that realism has no place in fiction, and science fiction should feature magic. So why not have the UT always work perfectly, if it is a magical device...

THE FETT whips his blaster from its holster with lightning speed and shoots DevilEyes between the DevilEyes; spinning the blaster back into its holster before the body hits the ground

Wow, who can argue in the in face of such intelligent debating skills and such strong, logical arguments?

 

[The Wormhole]

I'm not familiar with the episode in question, but if I were a time-traveling alien studying Earth's early space efforts,

They weren't time travellers. They were 20th century Vulcans who were conducting an orbital survey of Earth, primarily due the the launch of Sputnik. Read about it here.

After they crash, they somehow have the ability to speak English right away, despite the fact there is no logical reason for this.

 

[scotpens]

They weren't time travellers. They were 20th century Vulcans who were conducting an orbital survey of Earth, primarily due the the launch of Sputnik. . . After they crash, they somehow have the ability to speak English right away, despite the fact there is no logical reason for this.

That dramatic convention certainly isn't unique to Star Trek, or even to science fiction. Hell, EVERYBODY speaks English. And if they don't, they should!