TWOK : Repairing Warp Drive.

[ConRefit79]

If Mr. Scott or someone other qualified engineer were well, would Kirk have ordered them into the Reactor room to repair the warp drive knowing it would kill them?

Would they have survived long enough to complete the repairs?

 

[RyanKCR]

I think the issues was, and this is in the novelization, that no one would survive long enought to complete the repairs.

I still like the text commentary suggesting that they open the blast door since it was cutting off the intermix chamber.

 

[ConRefit79]

I guess Spock was the only one with the know how and could tolerate the radiation long enough.

While this is not canon, I think Mr. Scotts Guide said the Horz. chamber would be cut off by force fields. But having looked closely, that door could not close without removing a segment. Should have had door coming top and bottom that form fitted around the horz chamber.

They couldn't open the door, cause it was a vacume behind it.

You know, if Kahn were really smart, he would have severed the dorsal at its narrowest point instead. I'm pretty sure he had enough time to Decap E with phasers.

 

[Crewman47]

The one thing that is always lacking in Star Trek in situations like this is the use of Hazmat suits or a form of protective clothing for vasrious situations.

I know and TOS and the Movies had Engineering coveralls and suits but in the TNG era they had nothing to protect them in certain situations which ended up in the crew more or less giving up.

All they had to do here in TWOK was to get an Engineer to get to the nearest storage locker in Engineering, grab a helmet and go into the Reactor room and do his job! Spock would then have not have needed to go down and give his live for the ship the way he did.

 

[ConRefit79]

The one thing that is always lacking in Star Trek in situations like this is the use of Hazmat suits or a form of protective clothing for vasrious situations.

I know and TOS and the Movies had Engineering coveralls and suits but in the TNG era they had nothing to protect them in certain situations which ended up in the crew more or less giving up.

All they had to do here in TWOK was to get an Engineer to get to the nearest storage locker in Engineering, grab a helmet and go into the Reactor room and do his job! Spock would then have not have needed to go down and give his live for the ship the way he did.

Well the ship was crewed by mostly cadets. Many of them died or were seriously injured in the initial attack. I'm guess the radiation was way too high for the suits, so Scotty did not fix the crystals during the 2hrs while Kirk was on Regula.

 

[Leviathan]

The one thing that is always lacking in Star Trek in situations like this is the use of Hazmat suits or a form of protective clothing for vasrious situations.

...hey, he had gloves.

 

[James Wright]

If Mr. Scott or someone other qualified engineer were well, would Kirk have ordered them into the Reactor room to repair the warp drive knowing it would kill them?

Would they have survived long enough to complete the repairs?

1. Kirk had to take the same test to become a bridge officer as Troi did.(Remember that?)
2. It depends on the number of "qualified" engineers on board a training ship, I'd have to say NO!

 

[T'Girl]

All they had to do here in TWOK was to get an Engineer to get to the nearest storage locker in Engineering, grab a helmet and go into the Reactor room and do his job! Spock would then have not have needed to go down and give his live for the ship the way he did.

Even if a Human engineer lasted a third as long as a half-Vulcan in the face of all that radiation, then they should have gone into the chamber in relays. How much time was wasted through "waiting" for Spock to travel from the bridge to engineering.

Remember the turbo-lift would have stopped on deck three, Spock would have had to finish his journey to engineering (in the secondary hull) using ladders, stair wells and long lengths of corridors. The whole time the Genesis device was counting down to detonation. Three (or more) of the Enterprise's non-Vulcan engineers, instead of waiting for a miracle (in the form of Spock) to arrive, should have been sent into the chamber.

To their deaths.

 

[RedShirt]

The one thing that is always lacking in Star Trek in situations like this is the use of Hazmat suits or a form of protective clothing for vasrious situations.

Hell, or even a simple remote-controlled robot arm!

I swear that Room Of Death was installed as a joke on the cadets... too bad it came back and bit Spock on the ass.

 

[EnsignRicky]

Sure, but who would pay to see Star Trek III The Search For Bob?

 

[Captrek]

Even if a Human engineer lasted a third as long as a half-Vulcan in the face of all that radiation, then they should have gone into the chamber in relays.

NCC-1701: The Widowmaker.

 

[EnsignRicky]

Even if a Human engineer lasted a third as long as a half-Vulcan in the face of all that radiation, then they should have gone into the chamber in relays.

NCC-1701: The Widowmaker.

 

[LeadHead]

A key issue to this problem is the assessment of the damage to the Warp Engines. Scotty barely managed to report to Kirk that the Warp Engines were offline. By the time the Genesis Device began to power up, he was incapacitated. Somehow Spock had determined the issue and the only possible resolution. Logically in his own analysis, wit Scotty down for the count and Engineering full to the brimming with inexperienced trainees, he went to the engine room and saved the ship.

If Scotty had been more conscious, he might have contacted the bridge and given them the option, probably going in himself.

 

[Timo]

It may well be that Scotty would never have come up with the solution that Spock chose because it was way too unlikely to work. Say, Spock may have had a one-in-a-hundred chance of (say) aligning the dilithium crystals down to micrometer accuracy, but he was confident that he could do the job ten times more accurately than a human, so his odds were better if still far from certain.

1. Kirk had to take the same test to become a bridge officer as Troi did.(Remember that?)

I seriously doubt that. Kirk and Troi were training for completely different jobs; why would they take the same test? Kirk was aiming for starship command, Troi was interested in qualifying for standing bridge watches. It's a bit like becoming a qualified surgeon vs. being allowed to enter an operating room.

I'm guess the radiation was way too high for the suits, so Scotty did not fix the crystals during the 2hrs while Kirk was on Regula.

It's equally possible that the damage was recent, rather than a case of Scotty's bypass wires and chewing gum failing and some older damage resurfacing. Scotty did successfully restore "partial main power", which would seem to call for repairing the dilithium crystals if we trust the TNG-era explanations on how starships work.

We never canonically learn what exactly Spock did to save the ship. Might have involved dilithium, might not have. But I like the idea that this shielded room and the pedestal in the middle were two layers of protection around a system that delivers the dilithium crystals to the heavily armored reaction chamber somewhere deep down - essentially a new version of the floor assembly we saw in "Elaan of Troyius", only adapted for use in a non-shirtsleeves environment (so there was less protection, just plexiglass walls rather than three-inch-thick cast rodinium cylinders around the access point). Nobody could go to the reaction chamber itself, and nobody should access the crystals even through this remote system while the reactor was hot, but Spock had no time for running down the reactor first. There was no way to access the crystals safely, not with radsuits, not by any other means, while the reactor was hot - so Spock accessed them in a fatal manner.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mr Silver]

We never canonically learn what exactly Spock did to save the ship. Might have involved dilithium, might not have. But I like the idea that this shielded room and the pedestal in the middle were two layers of protection around a system that delivers the dilithium crystals to the heavily armored reaction chamber somewhere deep down - essentially a new version of the floor assembly we saw in "Elaan of Troyius", only adapted for use in a non-shirtsleeves environment (so there was less protection, just plexiglass walls rather than three-inch-thick cast rodinium cylinders around the access point). Nobody could go to the reaction chamber itself, and nobody should access the crystals even through this remote system while the reactor was hot, but Spock had no time for running down the reactor first. There was no way to access the crystals safely, not with radsuits, not by any other means, while the reactor was hot - so Spock accessed them in a fatal manner.

This...

The only complaint I have is, Scotty clearly said "I've got to take the mains offline" which surely means the Reaction was not "hot"

 

[RyanKCR]

We never canonically learn what exactly Spock did to save the ship. Might have involved dilithium, might not have. But I like the idea that this shielded room and the pedestal in the middle were two layers of protection around a system that delivers the dilithium crystals to the heavily armored reaction chamber somewhere deep down - essentially a new version of the floor assembly we saw in "Elaan of Troyius", only adapted for use in a non-shirtsleeves environment (so there was less protection, just plexiglass walls rather than three-inch-thick cast rodinium cylinders around the access point). Nobody could go to the reaction chamber itself, and nobody should access the crystals even through this remote system while the reactor was hot, but Spock had no time for running down the reactor first. There was no way to access the crystals safely, not with radsuits, not by any other means, while the reactor was hot - so Spock accessed them in a fatal manner.

This...

The only complaint I have is, Scotty clearly said "I've got to take the mains offline" which surely means the Reaction was not "hot"

Actully he said that and to finish the quote what he tried to say: "It's radiation......."

 

[Anji]

I don't honestly believe there was anyway to make that repair scene believable. The gravity of the moment was too great.

In Shatner's, Nimoy's, Meyer's and Benett's books they all talk about how the dreaded filming the scene. Think about it: they were going to kill Spock, who is the keystone to the Star Trek franchise. It was one helluva gamble.

 

[Mr Silver]

I think we have to analyse Spock's Physiology in order to make more sense of it....

Vulcan's are physically superior in almost every way to human's, they are stronger, they live longer, they age slower and as McCoy has mentioned on several occasions, Vulcan's have a particulary unique "Metabolism"

We can gather that as soon as the Reactor Room started leaking Radiation Scotty went inside in order to "Take The Mains Offline", in this short space of time he succumbed to Radiation Poisoning and passed out (even while wearing his Engineers Isolation Suit), Also from what we can gather, Spock was one of the only (if not only) people onboard who could withstand dangerous levels of Radiation for prolonged periods of time. We've seen Spock in several situations where he has recovered from injuries and conditions that would be fatal to most Humans, etc

When Spock enters the Reactor Room he is initially unfazed by the leaking Radiation, its not until he opens the Cylinder Appliance and releases the build up that it starts to affect him, we can see in camera cuts, as he works on the systems that he is straining his eyes in a way that looks as if he is fighting to resist the effects of the Radiation

When Kirk comes down to Engineering we see the effects that the Radiation has had on Spock, he is covered in Radiation Burns (although his uniform is somehow in flawless condition :P ) he is extremely weak and it would appear that he is blind, now Spock repaired the Warp Drive in about 5 minutes, it was then, roughly another 5 minutes that it took for Kirk to get down to Engineering and for Spock to say his dying words, thus we can gather that Spock survived through exposure for 10 minutes

Now if we assume that Scotty wore a helmet when he entered the chamber to turn off the Warp Drive, then it would show that even wearing the full isolation suit would be useless against high levels of Radiation, therefore Spock reasoned that it would still be fatal even if he isolated himself (we can assume that he wore the gloves in order to give some small protection to his hands so his hands would continue to function for as long as possible, until he could finish fixing the Warp Drive) therefore Spock reasoned that he should just go in unprotected, since he knew how long he could survive and it would be enough time for him to complete the repairs, rather than spending a couple of minutes putting on an isolation suit (when it wouldn't protect him anyway)

 

[Ablative_Oberth]

The only complaint I have is, Scotty clearly said "I've got to take the mains offline" which surely means the Reaction was not "hot"

Perhaps it takes time for the energetic reaction byproducts to cool down enough to allow someone to enter the reactor chamber.

An older matter-antimatter reactor might give off more secondary radiation due to a less focused reaction cross-section. The leaking neutrons, delta and gamma-rays irradiate the core vessel, the articulation frame, and any other internal structures.

You take the core off line, let it cool down thermally and let some of the more energetic secondary reactions burn out THEN you start work on the core... Sort of like how aan american fission reactor has to cool for a period of time before they can take the top off to refuel.

The newer warp-cores are focused much tighter, and innovations in force-fields and materials allow for a reactor vessel to be housed in a shirt-sleeve environment.

 

[DonIago]

Indeed.

When I turn my oven off I can't immediately touch the heating elements.

When I turn my microwave off I can feel around inside without a problem.