TWOK observation

[J.T.B.]

I'm amazed that some people still assume that Kirk's stranding of Khan was somehow off the books. Kirk, Spock, McCoy, and Scotty are all in dress uniform, Kirk rings a bell before declaring the hearing in session, and Uhura is recording the entire proceedings. You don't get much more official or well documented than that.

The premise and result of the hearing is totally unbelievable and not credible to me, but it definitely seems to be on-the-record.

Which wouldn't be an issue if there were warning buoys just in case a ship stumbled along without knowing the potential risk, but an anomaly that could destroy CA6 could presumably have destroyed the buoys as well.

I don't see what warning buoys would have to do with it. The planet's location was known, the system was charted for navigation. Unless whatever disaster befell Ceti Alpha 6 caused CA5 to exactly duplicate the orbital elements of the former planet, Reliant's navigators should have known that something was WAY off.

 

[fireproof78]

I still think a whole planet exploding would be noticed by someone.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

The premise and result of the hearing is totally unbelievable and not credible to me, but it definitely seems to be on-the-record.

What do you find unbelievable about it?

 

[J.T.B.]

What do you find unbelievable about it?

That someone would not be disqualified from presiding over, or even participating in, judicial proceedings in which he was a victim and primary witness.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

That someone would not be disqualified from presiding over, or even participating in, judicial proceedings in which he was a victim and primary witness.

Ah, okay. Yeah, I can definitely see that.

But hey, Kirk's ex-girlfriend didn't have to recuse herself from court martialing him either, so I guess the 23rd Century has different rules about that sort of thing.

 

[DonIago]

We are talking about the same Starfleet that was fine ~80 years later with compelling the first officer of a starship with presumably minimal qualifications to practice law to be the prosecuting attorney for a hearing he didn't believe in, under threat of summary judgment being found in the prosecution's favor if he refused to do so.

The Starfleet Code of Justice must make for some interesting reading.

 

[Kor]

We are talking about the same Starfleet that was fine ~80 years later with compelling the first officer of a starship with presumably minimal qualifications to practice law to be the prosecuting attorney for a hearing he didn't believe in, under threat of summary judgment being found in the prosecution's favor if he refused to do so.

The Starfleet Code of Justice must make for some interesting reading.

I was about to remark on "Measure of a Man" too. It makes for interesting drama with our familiar characters within the confines of a one-hour (with ad breaks) television slot. And giving our heroes certain authorities and responsibilities that, on the surface, don't mesh with their actual job roles, does fit the 'frontier feel' of being out in the middle of nowhere without quick access to all of the resources from headquarters.

It kind of reminds of of Chang being the prosecutor in TUC, since he was the arresting officer at the scene of the crime and probably should have been called as a witness. But that can be handwaved away as weird alien laws of a warrior species. As Sarek said, "Klingon justice is a unique point of view."

Kor

 

[DonIago]

I wonder whether in the Klingon justice system the most direct victims of a crime get the first opportunity to be the prosecuting attorney if they so desire.

 

[J.T.B.]

But hey, Kirk's ex-girlfriend didn't have to recuse herself from court martialing him either, so I guess the 23rd Century has different rules about that sort of thing.

We are talking about the same Starfleet that was fine ~80 years later with compelling the first officer of a starship with presumably minimal qualifications to practice law to be the prosecuting attorney for a hearing he didn't believe in, under threat of summary judgment being found in the prosecution's favor if he refused to do so.

And Commodore Stone investigated, made the decision to prosecute, and ran the court. And Kirk served on the court trying his own second in command and friend. None of which I can suspend my disbelief over!

 

[JonnyQuest037]

We are talking about the same Starfleet that was fine ~80 years later with compelling the first officer of a starship with presumably minimal qualifications to practice law to be the prosecuting attorney for a hearing he didn't believe in, under threat of summary judgment being found in the prosecution's favor if he refused to do so.

The Starfleet Code of Justice must make for some interesting reading.

Phillipa Louvois knew there was a high probably Data's trial would end with a dramatic speech in defense of Data, and Picard was the best qualified officer in the sector. She named Riker as opposing counsel just for shits & giggles.

It kind of reminds of of Chang being the prosecutor in TUC, since he was the arresting officer at the scene of the crime and probably should have been called as a witness. But that can be handwaved away as weird alien laws of a warrior species. As Sarek said, "Klingon justice is a unique point of view."

Yeah, it's definitely easier to handwave it away when it's a alien race's justice system. There's a line in the comics adaptation of TUC about how, in the Klingon system, both sides present their cases at once. I imagine that was drawn from an earlier draft of the script.

But it's odd how in Starfleet it seems to be almost required that the judge or opposing counsel is either a current or former lover of the Captain involved with a case ("Court Martial," "The Measure of a Man," "Ad Astra per Aspera"). Roddenberry's free love future gets weird sometimes.

 

[FormerLurker]

And Commodore Stone investigated, made the decision to prosecute, and ran the court. And Kirk served on the court trying his own second in command and friend. None of which I can suspend my disbelief over!

Commodore Stone wasn't in "The Menagerie".

 

[J.T.B.]

Commodore Stone wasn't in "The Menagerie".

Examples from several episodes were being brought up, including "Court Martial."

 

[Jedi Marso]

And Commodore Stone investigated, made the decision to prosecute, and ran the court. And Kirk served on the court trying his own second in command and friend. None of which I can suspend my disbelief over!

IIRC, Commodore Stone was the guy in 'Court Martial" with Ben Finney and Sam Cogley, not Te Menagerie. I'm not 100% on that though.

 

[J.T.B.]

IIRC, Commodore Stone was the guy in 'Court Martial" with Ben Finney and Sam Cogley, not Te Menagerie. I'm not 100% on that though.

Yes, the reference was to Commodore Stone and "Court Martial."

 

[JonnyQuest037]

And Commodore Stone investigated, made the decision to prosecute, and ran the court. And Kirk served on the court trying his own second in command and friend. None of which I can suspend my disbelief over!

Commodore Stone wasn't in "The Menagerie".

J.T.B.'s first sentence is talking about "Court Martial." His second sentence is talking about "The Menagerie." He was listing multiple examples of weird legal things in TOS.