two ideas for future trek

[indolover]

I have two ideas for a future trek series.

First one is set 60 years after Nemesis. The background is thus - in the years post-Dominion War, the Federation, Romulans and Klingons have grown closer due to their war alliance. In 2428, they sign a treaty, which lays down a non-aggression pact and formal alliance between them. As part of the alliance, all three powers agree to have 50 vessels each to act as a mini-Starfleet, to strength their new friendship and co-operation.

The series would focus on one of these ships, and be similar in format to the Next Generation, it would be a Starfleet ship, with a human captain (I'm thinking either an African, Indian (from India) or East Asian actor, i don't see why there needs to be mostly US-character captains, like Sisko, Archer, Janeway and Kirk).

However the crew would be different. The XO would be a Romulan female, from the Romulan military, and other crew members would be Andorian (since we don't know much about this species, despite them being one of the major Federation races). There would be fewer humans in the senior staff, unlike the other Trek series.

The enemy would be rogue Dominion forces, seeking revenge for their defeat in the War in the 24th century. But they would be allied with a new enemy, who would want to undermine the Federation/Romulan/Klingon alliance to further their own interests.

To me, this would be good since we know practically nothing about the Romulans, so having a Romulan in one of the major positions on the ship would give a good insight into their culture/way of life.

The second idea is TV movies, featuring members of the crews from the 24th century series. I have some ideas:

- In 2385, when the movie is set, Bajor join the Federation. Cardassia is still rebuilding after the war, but some rogue Cardassians blame the Federation for Cardassia's plight, and seek to attack Bajor, as the nearest Federation member world to Cardassia. The Prophets warn Sisko of this, and Sisko re-appears on DS9 to help avert the Cardassian attack.

- In 2385 again (a TNG story this time), Captain Riker in the USS Titan is on a terraforming mission, not far from Klingon space, when there is a transporter accident (or so it would seem). Deanna and the crew are obviously distraught since they think he is dead, but the "accident" turns out to transport Riker to the Mirror Universe. He meets the alternate Riker, who tries to enlist him into the Resistance against Klingon/Cardassian rule. Even though the Resistance beat back the Klingons/Cardassians from Terok Nor, the final battle involves destroy the Klingon/Cardassian High Command on Q'onos. "Normal" Riker then meets alternate Deanna, Picard, Data (who is a human being in this universe, not an android), Beverly Crusher, Geordi (who is not blind in this universe), Guinan, and Regent Worf, who leads the Klingon/Cardassian fleet protecting the Klingon/Cardassian High Command. Also, Tasha Yar never died in this universe, and Wesley is there too.

I've written plenty, but it's just some ideas i've had nonetheless.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

As part of the alliance, all three powers agree to have 50 vessels each to act as a mini-Starfleet, to strength their new friendship and co-operation.

That's interesting! And I don't think I've seen that precise idea trotted out before.

- In 2385, when the movie is set, Bajor join the Federation. Cardassia is still rebuilding after the war, but some rogue Cardassians blame the Federation for Cardassia's plight, and seek to attack Bajor, as the nearest Federation member world to Cardassia.

...or they'd cut to the chase and blame the Dominion who after are, actually are to blame. And upset that nice treaty between the AQ and GQ.

 

[DonIago]

1) I'm honestly kind of tired of story proposals that involve more hostilities with the Dominion or a faction thereof. I seem to be in the minority of people who'd like to think we can actually establish peaceful relations with the Dominion at some point (note I didn't say soon).

2) I'm also not really sure why the Cardassians would, of all people, blame the Feds for what happened. Though in a way this sounds like how the aftermath of WWI laid the groundwork for WWII. I guess it could be good, though I'd want to hear more details.

 

[indolover]

As part of the alliance, all three powers agree to have 50 vessels each to act as a mini-Starfleet, to strength their new friendship and co-operation.

That's interesting! And I don't think I've seen that precise idea trotted out before.

- In 2385, when the movie is set, Bajor join the Federation. Cardassia is still rebuilding after the war, but some rogue Cardassians blame the Federation for Cardassia's plight, and seek to attack Bajor, as the nearest Federation member world to Cardassia.

...or they'd cut to the chase and blame the Dominion who after are, actually are to blame. And upset that nice treaty between the AQ and GQ.

i guess lol. I kind of think that Cardassians would want someone to blame for them being so devastated after the war.

 

[Arix]

1) I'm honestly kind of tired of story proposals that involve more hostilities with the Dominion or a faction thereof. I seem to be in the minority of people who'd like to think we can actually establish peaceful relations with the Dominion at some point (note I didn't say soon).

2) I'm also not really sure why the Cardassians would, of all people, blame the Feds for what happened. Though in a way this sounds like how the aftermath of WWI laid the groundwork for WWII. I guess it could be good, though I'd want to hear more details.

I agree.

I loved your idea up until the 'Dominion faction' got involved.

Leave the Dominion, and the Borg, and the Cardassians be - your entire proposal up until that point was about giving us main characters from races we hadn't seen much of, why not do the same with the enemies?

Why not expand on the Tholians? Or the Gorn? Or the Tzenkethi? Or make up an entirely NEW enemy? DS9 covered the Dominion and Cardassians perfectly - if you want the Cardies involved, give us a Cardassian Starfleet officer, surely 60 years after Nemesis a few things would have changed. I think if the Klingons and Romulans have strengthened their alliance with the Federation, the Cardassians would too.

Think about it, their world is devastated - they're relying on the Federation for support and aid. The Klingons allied themselves with their former enemies - the Federation - after the explosion of Praxis, I think the Cardassians would do the same. The Federation would be very interested in helping to shape the future of Cardassia.

As for your two TV movies... Hmmm, go read the DS9 and TNG relaunch novels, and the Titan series, and then the Destiny trilogy - any one of them is movie material.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Why not expand on the Tholians? Or the Gorn? Or the Tzenkethi? Or make up an entirely NEW enemy?

The challenge would be to invent a new enemy that isn't a retread of the past Trek races, yet is as interesting as they are. How would this be accomplished?

 

[Arix]

Why not expand on the Tholians? Or the Gorn? Or the Tzenkethi? Or make up an entirely NEW enemy?

The challenge would be to invent a new enemy that isn't a retread of the past Trek races, yet is as interesting as they are. How would this be accomplished?

I'm sure fans of TOS probably asked themselves that too, before TNG came along - and yet it introduced the Borg, Ferengi, Cardassians, Trill, Bajorans, etc etc

And then TNG fans probably said the same about DS9 - which then turned around and gave us the Dominion. Voyager gave us the Kazon (bleh), Vidiians, Hirogen, Malon, Species 8472. Even Enterprise, much as I wasn't a fan of it introducing new races at all, gave us the Suliban and the Xindi.

I'm sure an experienced writing team would have no problem coming up with a new enemy.

As a Trek fan, I'd much prefer a deeper exploration of the races we haven't seen much of. Have you heard of the Typhon Pact from the latest novels? The Tholians, Gorn, Breen, half of the Romulans, Tzenkethi, and some new guys called the Kinshaya, all form an alliance. I would LOVE to see a few series use this wonderful idea - we barely know anything about the Typhon Pact races, but what we have seen is interesting enough that I'd like to learn more.

But purely in terms of a 'new series' - I understand that whoever makes it will most likely NOT be serious Trek fans, interested in bringing back old races. In which case, a new enemy shouldn't be too difficult to create.

Oh, also, if this was set post-Nemesis, it could follow the events of the novels, which make a perfect backstory for indolover's premise. Post-Destiny, the Khitomer Accords are expanded to include the other half of the Romulans, the Cardassians, the Ferengi, and the Talarians. This would explain why there was a Romulan first officer aboard the starship.

I particularly like the idea that, if we jump ahead 60 years, we'd see the changes brought on by this alliance. I'd love to see a fusion of Starfleet + Klingons + Romulans + Cardassians reflected in the ship designs, uniforms, and the races seen onboard our starship.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

I'm sure fans of TOS probably asked themselves that too, before TNG came along - and yet it introduced the Borg, Ferengi, Cardassians, Trill, Bajorans, etc etc

Not the best examples there. Only the Cardies were a success as a new villain species. (How are the Trill and Bajorans even villains?)

Voyager gave us the Kazon (bleh), Vidiians, Hirogen, Malon, Species 8472. Even Enterprise, much as I wasn't a fan of it introducing new races at all, gave us the Suliban and the Xindi.

None of which I'd want to see again, and all good examples of how difficult a truly memorable villain species is to create.

Out of all the enemy empires attempted, the Klingons, Cardies and Doms have worked out. The Rommies are largely undeveloped but with huge potential. The Borg could be resurrected and handled properly, but that means they must be shown very little. So that's a pretty small success record out of all the attempts over the years, which must number in the hundreds.

 

[Yug]

Star Trek isn't all about "enemies" is it?

Most times an episode is just a morality tale, or a question of ethics. Visiting aspects of our imperfect selves in the motives of an allegorical alien culture.

I hope future Star Trek stories don't rely so much on falling back to an "enemy of the week" concept. The best enemies were the multi-dimensional races, with dichotomic dispositions. Exploring their motivations often brought up new aspects of their character that was often less than truely villainous in so many great episodes. Enterprise gave us a few Vulcans as adversaries, at least in the sense of their secretive and ambiguous nature, and little regard for humankind in that era. By the end of DS9 Cardasians had proven themselves worthy allies in a few spots, capable of growing beyond the cold enemy format as they were introduced to us. As far as creating new aliens, Star Trek does fine, many are classics.

 

[Arix]

I'm sure fans of TOS probably asked themselves that too, before TNG came along - and yet it introduced the Borg, Ferengi, Cardassians, Trill, Bajorans, etc etc

Not the best examples there. Only the Cardies were a success as a new villain species. (How are the Trill and Bajorans even villains?)

Voyager gave us the Kazon (bleh), Vidiians, Hirogen, Malon, Species 8472. Even Enterprise, much as I wasn't a fan of it introducing new races at all, gave us the Suliban and the Xindi.

None of which I'd want to see again, and all good examples of how difficult a truly memorable villain species is to create.

Out of all the enemy empires attempted, the Klingons, Cardies and Doms have worked out. The Rommies are largely undeveloped but with huge potential. The Borg could be resurrected and handled properly, but that means they must be shown very little. So that's a pretty small success record out of all the attempts over the years, which must number in the hundreds.

I didn't mean that the Bajorans or Trill were villians, I apologise. And I wouldn't really consider the Ferengi or Malon villians either. I simply meant that interesting races have been created in the past, including interesting enemies. But the reason DS9 succeeded with the Dominion and Cardassians is because they fleshed them out substantially.

And while the Klingons and Romulans were both created in TOS, only the Klingons were truly fleshed out and expanded upon - Perhaps that's the best example I could use. Cause I mean really, both races had equal potential - both were interesting enough to warrant further development. If Worf had instead been a Romulan officer, then maybe we'd all be wondering about those mysterious Klingons.

The premise itself is never usually the issue with Star Trek races - I found the Vidiians, Hirogen, Malon, even Species 8472, to all be interesting concepts for races. However its the way the writers develop those races that makes all the difference. The Voyager writers tried to develop the Kazon, who most people found boring and wish we didn't have a dozen or so episodes focused on them. Whereas, as we've already discussed, the DS9 writers developed the Bajorans, Cardassians, Trill, Ferengi, Klingons and Dominion from the humble roots of TNG (Dominion excluded, of course) into fully fleshed out, interesting races - and in some cases, interesting enemies.

I honestly don't see why future Trek writers wouldn't be able to do the same for this hypothetical series. If you really want me to list ideas for races/enemies, I'd be more than happy to do so, however its what the writers do with that idea that actually matters.

Star Trek isn't all about "enemies" is it?

Most times an episode is just a morality tale, or a question of ethics. Visiting aspects of our imperfect selves in the motives of an allegorical alien culture.

I hope future Star Trek stories don't rely so much on falling back to an "enemy of the week" concept. The best enemies were the multi-dimensional races, with dichotomic dispositions. Exploring their motivations often brought up new aspects of their character that was often less than truely villainous in so many great episodes. Enterprise gave us a few Vulcans as adversaries, at least in the sense of their secretive and ambiguous nature, and little regard for humankind in that era. By the end of DS9 Cardasians had proven themselves worthy allies in a few spots, capable of growing beyond the cold enemy format as they were introduced to us. As far as creating new aliens, Star Trek does fine, many are classics.

I completely agree.

And I don't entirely understand why you're pressing your point so hard about the enemies Temis... There are plenty of barely seen Trek races that could use some fleshing out - both enemies and allies - and I think every series has done a fine job at creating new alien races. I don't see why its an issue?

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Because enemies define a story - they provide the dramatic tension that drives a plotline. We already know who the heroes are - the Feddies, eternally - so the key question is, who are the adversaries?

and I think every series has done a fine job at creating new alien races.

Well, no, they haven't. Only TOS, TNG and DS9 have done this well. It's harder than people assume.

 

[Yug]

Because enemies define a story - they provide the dramatic tension that drives a plotline. We already know who the heroes are - the Feddies, eternally - so the key question is, who are the adversaries?

and I think every series has done a fine job at creating new alien races.

Well, no, they haven't. Only TOS, TNG and DS9 have done this well. It's harder than people assume.

Uh, well, YEAH they have... say what you will about Voyager, I found the Vidiians to be an interesting race, and the Suliban had potential in Enterprise. And no one said it was easy. Some villians, enemies, and adversaries really only need to be as deep as the single story they are created for. If they last beyond that, it's something different... But regardless, adversaries aren't always defined as enemies or villians.

Stop slapping you're opinions around like they're fact. They're just your opinions, nothing more. It's getting quite annoying, IMHO.

 

[T'Girl]

... adversaries aren't always defined as enemies or villians.

That would be interesting on a new series, show a group of races just outside (or maybe inside) the Federation who are in some way competing with the Federation, but not a hostile force or looking to invade.

 

[Arix]

Because enemies define a story - they provide the dramatic tension that drives a plotline. We already know who the heroes are - the Feddies, eternally - so the key question is, who are the adversaries?

and I think every series has done a fine job at creating new alien races.

Well, no, they haven't. Only TOS, TNG and DS9 have done this well. It's harder than people assume.

I don't agree, Voyager did create some interesting races - as I said in my earlier post, its what the writers then do with the initial premise that determines whether they're a memorable or interesting enemy or not. And I agree with Yug, the Vidiians were interesting, if underused, in Voyager.

My main point, which you seem to have skipped over, is that the reason we say TOS, TNG and DS9 have interesting enemies is because of the way they used those races - whether they created them or not. In fact, I'd even argue that the treatment of those races in the later series was usually more interesting than the way they used them originally!

Klingons became much more interesting, and fully fleshed out, in the movies, TNG and DS9. And TNG didn't really know what to do with the Ferengi and the Cardassians, even though it was the series that created them, I'd argue that they were more interesting once they were fleshed out and expanded in DS9.

Which brings me back to my original point - I think (and have said repeatedly) that a Typhon Pact type situation, where we explore the Tholians, Gorn, Breen, Tzenkethi and Romulans would be interesting. Sure, they are all 'old' races, but we barely know anything about them - I think its a great opportunity to do what TNG and DS9 have done in the past, and flesh out these underused races.

Another point I want to bring up, is that, sure Trek stories usually include an adversary of some kind - however, I think you're being a little narrow minded when you say many of the Voyager races aren't 'memorable'. Because when you really stop and think about it - there are hundreds of 'adversaries' in Trek. Every episode features some race, or character, who plays the role of the villian in that story. I don't even remember most of them. For every episode that features a race I can remember - whether its the Klingons or Romulans, the Dominion or Cardassians, Vidiians or Kazon - there are at least 3 episodes featuring random race/bad guy of the week.

And yet again, I must ask - why are you leaving it up to me to tell you who these adversaries are? We haven't even heard from indolover in days, and it was his idea!

I've told you, on numerous occasions, who I think would make good enemies for this story (or for any future Trek series). Why don't you tell me what you think an interesting enemy race would be?

... adversaries aren't always defined as enemies or villians.

That would be interesting on a new series, show a group of races just outside (or maybe inside) the Federation who are in some way competing with the Federation, but not a hostile force or looking to invade.

Section 31 would be awesome.

 

[Braxton]

The Tholians and Gorn are 'old' races, yes, but if they were to be the focus of a new series it would work because there's not much known about them. The Tzenkethi are new are they not? I think we first heard about them in DS9 so they're really a new race that could be explored. The Breen are new as well but were just featured on DS9. Of course, they can be portrayed as having a major grudge for choosing the losing side in the Dominion War. The Romulans are an interesting race and I actually like what the books have done, it is, IMO, a believable situation that would happen considering what we know of the Romulans.

I like the idea of relations between the Federation, Klingons, and Romulans strengthening because of the Dominion. The 'combined fleet' would be the symbol of this alliance, each still has their own defense forces but this one fleet would be the premiere fleet for the defense of their territories and would be a personnel sharing endeavor as well. Obviously the pilot episode would have this alliance being formalized, perhaps involving the Tholians, Tzenkethi, or Breen and their attempt to thwart its formation.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Because enemies define a story - they provide the dramatic tension that drives a plotline. We already know who the heroes are - the Feddies, eternally - so the key question is, who are the adversaries?

and I think every series has done a fine job at creating new alien races.

Well, no, they haven't. Only TOS, TNG and DS9 have done this well. It's harder than people assume.

Uh, well, YEAH they have... say what you will about Voyager, I found the Vidiians to be an interesting race, and the Suliban had potential in Enterprise. And no one said it was easy. Some villians, enemies, and adversaries really only need to be as deep as the single story they are created for. If they last beyond that, it's something different... But regardless, adversaries aren't always defined as enemies or villians.

Stop slapping you're opinions around like they're fact. They're just your opinions, nothing more. It's getting quite annoying, IMHO.

This is pretty hilarious, since you're slapping around "you're" opinions as fact, as well.

What "potential" did the Suliban have? Just precisely how were the Vidiians remotely interesting?

Some villians, enemies, and adversaries really only need to be as deep as the single story they are created for

I see that your standards of what consistutes a "good" villain are simply lower than mine. Or maybe you just haven't thought this through very well. If a villain is only good enough for a single story, then why bring them back for subsequent stories, for which they are not "good enough"?

My main point, which you seem to have skipped over, is that the reason we say TOS, TNG and DS9 have interesting enemies is because of the way they used those races - whether they created them or not.

I'll agree with that. TNG invented the Cardassians but DS9 was responsible for evolving them into something more than just generic villains. TOS invented the Romulans, who have never been evolved into anything much beyond generic villains. Rather than inventing any new villain species, here's what's needed: develop the potential that the Romulans have always had, at long last.

I can see the potential in Romulans and I suppose any random alien species would have potential if latched onto and developed well. But why focus on Vidiians and Suliban when there are a hundred other completely undeveloped villains who have exactly the same "potential" to be made into something?

The real problem is this: if you have writers who are able to take the Suliban and make something out of them, why not take [fill in the blank] and make the same something out of them? The vast majority of Trek villains are so completely undeveloped that they could all benefit from the same great writing. Where that great writing is going to come from is the main problem.

 

[Yug]

Because enemies define a story - they provide the dramatic tension that drives a plotline. We already know who the heroes are - the Feddies, eternally - so the key question is, who are the adversaries?

Well, no, they haven't. Only TOS, TNG and DS9 have done this well. It's harder than people assume.

Uh, well, YEAH they have... say what you will about Voyager, I found the Vidiians to be an interesting race, and the Suliban had potential in Enterprise. And no one said it was easy. Some villians, enemies, and adversaries really only need to be as deep as the single story they are created for. If they last beyond that, it's something different... But regardless, adversaries aren't always defined as enemies or villians.

Stop slapping you're opinions around like they're fact. They're just your opinions, nothing more. It's getting quite annoying, IMHO.

This is pretty hilarious, since you're slapping around "you're" opinions as fact, as well.

What "potential" did the Suliban have? Just precisely how were the Vidiians remotely interesting?

Some villians, enemies, and adversaries really only need to be as deep as the single story they are created for

[
Stop slapping you're opinions around like they're fact. They're just your opinions, nothing more. It's getting quite annoying, IMHO.

This is pretty hilarious, since you're slapping around "you're" opinions as fact, as well.

What "potential" did the Suliban have? Just precisely how were the Vidiians remotely interesting?

Some villians, enemies, and adversaries really only need to be as deep as the single story they are created for

I see that your standards of what consistutes a "good" villain are simply lower than mine. Or maybe you just haven't thought this through very well. If a villain is only good enough for a single story, then why bring them back for subsequent stories, for which they are not "good enough"?


The real problem is this: if you have writers who are able to take the Suliban and make something out of them, why not take [fill in the blank] and make the same something out of them? The vast majority of Trek villains are so completely undeveloped that they could all benefit from the same great writing. Where that great writing is going to come from is the main problem.

All my comments are my opinions and are written in that manner. My opinion is: you clearly can’t see past your own conceit.

I'm not focusing on those two particular aliens races, only stating the point that all the Trek shows have come up with new cultures suitable for future episodes highlighting that culture and race, and the exploration of their evolving motivations if the potential is there, whether they live up to that potential is out of our hands. Those were merely two of many examples. Most of the time the single episode's alien and culture need not go any further then that particular episode, it served the story, nothing more. I’ve always hated the term “disappearing aliens” as often thrown around. This is episodic television; it’s okay to move on with new adventures and concepts, leaving old ones behind. Who were the villians in TNG's "Cause and Effect" or "First Contact" (the episode, not the film). It was just a good story, do I want to revisit that world? Or those characters? Not really. What about ENT's "Carbon Creek"? No bad guys, just a story. And, just so ya know, that's just a FEW of MANY examples of episodes where the antagonistic component is not always a "villian", sometimes it's just a situation or predicament the character's find themselves in... or even the "hero" character's own limitations, causing them to rise above their own failures or shortcomings to learn, grow, and evolve as a result.

Oh, and: The obligatory deconstruction of my small grammatical error makes my point no less valid, or demonstrates any measure of below standard intellect. We’re all just chewing the fat up in here! I’m sure we can search your numerous meandering posts and find an equal amount of errors… Yooze got me, I spell it wrong… live it up!!!