TV Licenses / Taxes in the UK

[Ro_Laren]

I had heard in the past that you have to pay a tax on your TV's in the UK. And just now I heard an PSA on a London radio station (I'm listening on-line) stating that you also have to pay a license fee to watch TV on your laptop. The PSA directed you to http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk where I saw that you also have to get a license to watch TV on your mobile / cell phone.

That seems like it could get really expensive... especially if you have multiple TV's in your house. It is £145.50 for color TV's and £49.00 for black and white TV's. I remember years ago when I was at high school and my teacher talked about old window taxes (I think in England) where you had to pay taxes based on the number of windows in your house. Is that true? I'm guessing that the TV taxes / licenses follow the same logic? Is the reasoning for the license that the funds are needed to pay for public television?

 

[Deckerd]

Re: TV Licenses in the UK

TV online has always been free aside from your subscription to your IP plus any extra data charges. All UK tv online tends to be zone limited, in the same way as we can't watch US tv online in the UK. This is not to do with licensing.

 

[Ro_Laren]

The site says:

You need to be covered by a valid TV Licence if you watch or record TV as it's being broadcast. This includes the use of devices such as a computer, laptop, mobile phone or DVD/video recorder.

Does that mean you pay one fee and then you can watch TV on any of these devices? Meaning that you don't pay for each individual items or if you have multiple TV's?

 

[Deckerd]

No it's free. The only thing you have to pay a licence for is a TV. If you have a licence you can have 200 TV sets. Anyone can watch online provided you're within a country that the players will work.

I should say that live broadcast to anything is a TV*. I'm talking about all recorded play when I say everything is free.

*A portable player, laptop or handheld needs a tv card in it to receive live broadcast. In the UK, if you buy anything with TV capability you need to prove you have a licence.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

And do TV detector vans actually work?

 

[Deckerd]

That's not how the system works. Anyone selling something with tv capability is required by law to notify the licensing authorities. That's how it works in practice. There are still hundreds of thousands of tv capable electronics which 'fell off the back of a lorry' and are unlicensed. They don't all get caught but a small percentage lose their fancy LED cinema systems every year.

 

[Methos]

As the law currently stands, you need a licence to watch or record “a live or nearly live” television transmission – no matter what device you receive it on.

So, yes, watching live TV on your PC would require a licence. Similarly, watching something recorded with Tivo/Sky+ would also require a licence (since you received it “live”, even if you didn’t watch it until later).

Oddly, the source of the TV signal is irrelevant. So if you’re watching a live stream of France 24 (produced in France, and paid for by French taxpayers) on your computer (not your television) then you still need a licence from the BBC.

It’s important to note that you do not need a licence simply because you own something which *could* receive a licence. A common misconception is that a licence is required to own a television. It is not - it is a licence to receive a television transmission, not to own a television set.

You do not need a television licence if you own a television set but only use it for watching DVDs, listening to music, or playing video games.

M

 

[Deckerd]

In practice though, if you have anything that can receive live broadcast, the onus is on you to prove you don't use it to receive. In other words, if the detector that caused so much hilarity upthread catches you, you're fucked.

 

[cultcross]

The site says:

You need to be covered by a valid TV Licence if you watch or record TV as it's being broadcast. This includes the use of devices such as a computer, laptop, mobile phone or DVD/video recorder.

Does that mean you pay one fee and then you can watch TV on any of these devices? Meaning that you don't pay for each individual items or if you have multiple TV's?

Yes, it is one licence fee per household. The phrase they use is 'a licence for every locked door'. For example, if you live in a student flat in a halls of residence where each of you have a separate, lockable, room, each room technically requires their own TV licence. If these same 6 people were living in a house, where the only lock was on the front door, they could all have a TV on the one licence. Licensing rules can be a bit bizarre like that.

Methos is right on the money about how it all works though. If you (either directly, or into a recorder) receive live broadcast TV in the UK, you must own a TV licence at the time you receive it. The licence fee pays for the BBC. It started life as a way of taxing only those who use the service, but as most of the country now has a TV, licence enforcement generally involves visiting unlicensed addresses to check whether they have TV equipment.

As has been stated, you do not need a licence simply to own a TV (/anything else that plays TV), only once it is hooked up to receive live broadcast. That is to say, you can own a TV and a DVD player, and only ever watched pre-recorded stuff on DVD, and not pay a licence fee.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

You do not need a television licence if you own a television set but only use it for watching DVDs, listening to music, or playing video games.

But would you need one for (using my own example) watching all content via an AppleTV? That doesn't receive live broadcasts, though it is Internet capable. You watch shows on it by subscribing to them via iTunes, which is not live.

And my facetious comment about TV detector vans aside...how does the BBC know that you have a TV set? If they visit you and ask to look around, you don't have to let them in, do you?

 

[Deckerd]

Do you live in the UK or anywhere you can pick up BBC broadcast?

 

[Mary Ann]

The Licence people are very suspicious of households that claim they don't watch live telly, though. I've known a few people without televisions, and they have a knock on the door or a letter from the Licence people at least twice a year.

 

[cultcross]

The existence of TV detector technology is something of a running joke in the UK. It has never been used in court and the BBC refuse to even say how many they have, so it has never been established whether they even exist or are just a scare tactic.

The main tool in the licence enforcement box is a simple list of unlicensed addresses, particularly those which have previously held a licence. They will write to the address reminding them of the necessity to hold a licence if they are receiving broadcast TV, and then if they hear nothing back will send round someone from TV Licensing, unannounced, to check. The inspectors aren't cops and have no more powers than a member of the public; they cannot enter without invitation and cannot force anyone to answer questions.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The Licence people are very suspicious of households that claim they don't watch live telly, though. I've known a few people without televisions, and they have a knock on the door or a letter from the Licence people at least twice a year.

So are there not as many UK viewers who "cut the cord" (i.e. get rid of cable and satellite and all that crap) as is happening in the US?

And if TV detector vans don't actually work, and the BBC can't force people to let in the inspectors, how can any of this actually be enforced? If a family claims not to have a TV, and insists on it, there's nothing the BBC can do, right?

 

[Deckerd]

Well the statement that you don't need a licence to use a TV for recorded material is fine on paper but in practice it's more difficult to prove. Bottom line if you can receive live broadcast you're hard pressed to prove you don't.

 

[cultcross]

Although as it classed as a tax, failing to pay is a criminal offence and must be proved to the criminal standard (beyond all reasonable doubt). The onus is always on the prosecution to prove you were watching live TV.

 

[cultcross]

The Licence people are very suspicious of households that claim they don't watch live telly, though. I've known a few people without televisions, and they have a knock on the door or a letter from the Licence people at least twice a year.

So are there not as many UK viewers who "cut the cord" (i.e. get rid of cable and satellite and all that crap) as is happening in the US?

And if TV detector vans don't actually work, and the BBC can't force people to let in the inspectors, how can any of this actually be enforced? If a family claims not to have a TV, and insists on it, there's nothing the BBC can do, right?

The most common method of receiving TV in the UK remains plugging the TV into the wall and getting it through the built in aerial almost all houses have. Although this is now digital rather than terrestrial, it still beats cable and satellite. Very hard to prove you were using it rather than just owning it, as it is free (the fact you're paying for a subscription to your cable/satellite is pretty good evidence you're watching it!)

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Is the AppleTV even usable in the UK? That's what got me to cut the cord. And if I interpret this correctly, using a television with an AppleTV would not require a license, since it isn't live.

 

[cultcross]

As long as you aren't watching or recording anything live (I don't know how AppleTV works, tbh), you wouldn't need a licence. For example, I could use my PC to watch recorded stuff on iPlayer without a licence. But If I click the bit at the top saying 'Live TV', I instantly become liable for a licence fee. It's a subtle line, and an arbitrary one, but most just own the licence these days anyway. With modern technology, almost everyone receives live TV somehow. Non-compliance with the licence fee is allegedly at one of its lowest rates ever. Probably the rise of cable through Virgin Media has made it harder to pretend.

 

[Methos]

Is the AppleTV even usable in the UK? That's what got me to cut the cord. And if I interpret this correctly, using a television with an AppleTV would not require a license, since it isn't live.

correct...

watching recorded TV, if it's on Itunes, BBC IPlayer, whatever, doesn't require a license, it's the same as simply watching a DVD

M