Tuvok spying on the Maquis

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by Karp666, Jul 18, 2016.

  1. Karp666

    Karp666 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    According to Memory Alpha, "Vulcans are known for their high degree of honesty. They are extremely reluctant to tell a lie, and indeed it is said that "Vulcans cannot lie".

    Considering the above, how was Tuvok able to fulfill his role as the Starfleet's spy among the Maquis? Choosing a Vulcan for this kind of job seems the worst possible choice for me.
     
  2. JeffinOakland

    JeffinOakland Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Devotion to duty and to Janeway. A lie or lies for a greater good or higher honor would, I guess, be acceptable.
     
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  3. somebuddyx

    somebuddyx Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    In my mind I think they can lie but don't like to, but this idea of them not being able to has taken on a life of it's own and they've not tried to dissuade people of it. I feel Tuvok would approach such a role in a way similar to how he talked about writing in "Worst Case Scenario" and go read a bunch of books on infiltration, go practice scenarios and conversations on the holodeck, and come up with a foolproof cover story for why a Vulcan would be a Maquis member, which isn't too difficult considering we know Sakonna was already one.
     
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  4. JeffinOakland

    JeffinOakland Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yeah the Maquis never struck me as geniuses.
     
  5. Tracy Trek

    Tracy Trek Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    ^It seems like Chakotay was forever trusting the wrong people. It makes me think of one of my favorite Trek quotes. Chakotay says, "You (Tuvok) were working for her (Janeway), she (Seska) was working for them (the Cardassians). Was anyone on that ship working for me"? What's in the paranthesis was unspoken.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2016
  6. JeffinOakland

    JeffinOakland Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yeah, Chakotay was extremely unsavvy for a rebel leader. Makes me wonder how he got to be in charge of his little band of rebels.
     
  7. Finn

    Finn Admiral Premium Member

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    Surely there is a fan fic or a novel somewhere where it turns out there was a third spy on Chakotay's ship....
     
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  8. JeffinOakland

    JeffinOakland Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    television scriptwriting at its finest
     
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  9. Paradise City

    Paradise City Commodore Commodore

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    Vulcans would be completely impotent as Starfleet command officers if they couldn't lie. No bluffin' nor brinkmanship possible really.

    Vulcans are master liars with those granite like facial features and they lie when they say they don't lie and that lie is so good that the myth that they don't lie has become legendary.
     
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  10. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    No one ever questioned that just because a Vulcan says that Vulcans never lie, doesn't mean they aren't lying? ;)
     
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  11. JeffinOakland

    JeffinOakland Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Good point but I get the impression Tuvok really believes his own Vulcanian bullshit.
     
  12. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Vice Admiral Admiral

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    B'Elanna was a Changeling and Ayala was a Romulan :)
     
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  13. somebuddyx

    somebuddyx Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It was Gabriel Summers.
     
  14. Karp666

    Karp666 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I found the dialogue that explains my questions. It is from "State of flux" (S01E10):

    Commander Chakotay: Can I ask you to be honest with me, Lieutenant?
    Lieutenant Tuvok: As a Vulcan, I am at all times honest, Commander.
    Commander Chakotay: That's not exactly true. You lied to me when you passed yourself off as a Maquis to get on my crew.
    Lieutenant Tuvok: I was honest to my own convictions within the defined parameters of my mission.
    Commander Chakotay: You damned Vulcans and your 'defined parameters'!
     
  15. stardream

    stardream Commodore Commodore

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    Paris was actually a spy for the Federation. They told him if you get caught we don't know you. ;)
     
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  16. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Actually, I can believe that. Paris admitted he joined the Maquis for the thrill, didn't he? Well, being a spy would also be that, at least for him.
     
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  17. stardream

    stardream Commodore Commodore

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    Damn it. Now I feel a fanfic coming on. :lol:
     
  18. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    Didn't Tuvok say in Hunters that Vulans were capable of lying if it was part of the job or something like that.
     
  19. Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME

    Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Oh, so true!!! :techman:
     
  20. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Cartoon Premium Member

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    IIRC, Spock was in the middle of a big old lie/espionage operation when this concept was introduced. :lol: