Tuvix or Similitude?

[Garak007]

The Xendi series is currently being played on Channel 1 and the episode Similitude came on. After watching it this time the whole situation was more or less a copy of the situation in Tuvix. Tuvix or the Trip clone had to die in order to bring the main cast or character back/characters back.

I normally be the first one to be real picky on copying storylines. Saying that a lot of episodes have been copied all through the 4 generations of Star Trek.

Both episodes were quite sad but I think Connor Trinneer and Scott Bakula over all played that angle really good. Connor Trinner actually in my view managed to get the clone to seem like a different person and Archer's mission seemed to more than a dilemma than Janeway's when she needed to have Tuvok and Neelix back.

Similitude gets my vote any day

 

[You_Will_Fail]

I think the episodes are different enough, my vote goes to Tuvix. I just felt the end was a lot more dramatic and there was more at stake in the episode since Sim would have died soon anyway.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Tuvix made me angry - Janeway had no right to condemn a living being to death just to get her friends back (who at that point were gone).

 

[AstroSmurf]

That is one of the reasons why I hate that episode. Janeway walked away looking like the devil and I was unsympathetic to Tuvix with all the whining he did. I have never been fond of Nelix either.

But on the other hand, Similitude is one of my favorites. Sim stole my heart. But I guess I am biased. Trip had already stolen it too.

Reading over this post... maybe I am not the best judge about these episodes.

 

[JiNX-01]

I think the episodes are different enough, my vote goes to Tuvix. I just felt the end was a lot more dramatic and there was more at stake in the episode since Sim would have died soon anyway.

Yes, Sim would have died anyway, but the fact is, he was murdered to save Trip.

Tuvix was also murdered to save Tuvok and Neelix.

I think both episodes were very well served by their moral dilemmas.

 

[Amaris]

For me, it has to be "Similitude". I went away from "Tuvix" feeling annoyed, but "Similitude" really touched at my heart strings.

 

[ReadyAndWilling]

The weird thing about Tuvix was it never being mentioned again.

Was kinda eery when they walked Tuvix down the hall like he was on death row.

 

[Alienesse]

I would also vote for "Similitude". I think it had a stronger emotional charge than "Tuvix" because we had to watch Sim grow up knowing that the only purpose of his life was to be sacrificed in order to save Trip. That's heartwrenching. And it makes the matter of cloning people for the sole purpose of providing organ replacements for their originals even harder to fathom. These clones develop into real persons, which raises the question, "What right does one have to use people like that?".

"Similitude" made me cry, "Tuvix" didn't.

 

[6079SmithW]

Simillitude. The creation of Tuvix was an accident while Sim(?) was created on purpose with a use in mind. Tuvix is deconstructed back into Tuvok and Neelix because Janeway needs her tactical officer back and didn't like his decision to do his own thing. Sim's only purpose was to be harvested for organs to get the dying engineer back and he has a short predetermined life span. He did not have much of a choice.

So, Archer's situation was more dire, more serious and more morally straining than Janeway's. Plus I like Enterprise better than Voyager. :P

 

[Gaith]

Neither. Not only are both concepts too silly to bother with (a merged, new sentient being? DNA-encoded memories?), the one makes Janeway a murderer and the other has Archer threaten the same.

 

[kimc]

Wow. From all the discussion that goes on in the Voyager forum regarding "Tuvix" you'd think Janeway was the only Trek captain faced with such a situation. Interesting that Archer had a similar situation but I've never heard him called a murderer.

Also, the original Enterprise crew had to basically put both the "good Kirk" and the "evil Kirk" to death to bring the "real Kirk" back. It seems this is a theme that got repeated a few times.

 

[Gaith]

^ The difference being that Sim let Archer off the hook by agreeing to give his (rapidly waning) life for Trip's.

 

[You_Will_Fail]

^ The difference being that Sim let Archer off the hook by agreeing to give his (rapidly waning) life for Trip's.

Which is why, for me, Tuvix is the better episode. The ending is so visceral.

 

[Crewman47]

These clones develop into real persons, which raises the question, "What right does one have to use people like that?".

"Similitude" made me cry, "Tuvix" didn't.

Could a solution have been then instead to have the clone mature only within a maturation chamber with no social devlopment at all or basically give it no conscious, only a body? Would this have made any difference?

 

[Deckerd]

I would also vote for "Similitude". I think it had a stronger emotional charge than "Tuvix" because we had to watch Sim grow up knowing that the only purpose of his life was to be sacrificed in order to save Trip. That's heartwrenching. And it makes the matter of cloning people for the sole purpose of providing organ replacements for their originals even harder to fathom. These clones develop into real persons, which raises the question, "What right does one have to use people like that?".

Are you talking about The Island here? It was fiction.

 

[Alienesse]

Could a solution have been then instead to have the clone mature only within a maturation chamber with no social devlopment at all or basically give it no conscious, only a body? Would this have made any difference?

You mean a situation where the clone never wakes up and never becomes aware of itself? I suppose that would make a difference for the clone itself in the sense that it would never have to deal with the pain of being stripped of its human rights. But I'm not sure it would make the moral implications of cloning people for utilitarian purposes any less dire.
If the clone is allowed to gain awareness, it would follow naturally that it develops consciousness, right? So you can't really choose on giving it that.

Are you talking about The Island here? It was fiction.

Yeah, The Island had something similar, but I'm talking about the theme in "Similitude". Besides, who says it will stay fiction?

 

[Gaith]

^ The difference being that Sim let Archer off the hook by agreeing to give his (rapidly waning) life for Trip's.

Which is why, for me, Tuvix is the better episode. The ending is so visceral.

Well, full disclosure, I haven't actually seen "Tuvix". Maybe it is a better ep... but the fact is that Janeway murdered Tuvix, whereas Archer didn't murder Sim.

Could a solution have been then instead to have the clone mature only within a maturation chamber with no social devlopment at all or basically give it no conscious, only a body? Would this have made any difference?

If Phlox had been able to do so (which would have been far less ridiculous than DNA memories), they would have had to come up with another ep story, but yes.

 

[Shatnertage]

I like "Tuvix" better. I honestly don't know what I would do if I was in Janeway's position. I can see both sides of the argument.

I am in the minority of ENT fans who don't like "Similitude." It was well acted, but I just don't feel it the same way other posters here do.

 

[RyuRoots]

I have never seen Similitude, but the impression I'm given is that though it was difficult and emotional, it was a choice for Sim to die and do some good rather than have both him and Trip die.

In Tuvix, both Tuvok and Neelix were already gone, and Tuvix is in no danger of dying. As a fan of Tuvok, I'm glad he was back by the end of the episode; with that caveat, I think what Janeway did is horribly reprehensible. She didn't do it for practical reasons (IIRC Tuvix performed Tuvok's duties competently), she just wanted her friend back, so F the life of this new person, his wants and needs aren't valid.

 

[ialfan]

Similitude is my preferred episode. It's one of the best episodes of Enterprise and all of Star Trek really.