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Turnabout Intruder Theory

ZapBrannigan

ZapBrannigan

Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Does anybody else think Dr. Coleman was gay?

http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/3x24/turnaboutintruder_008.JPG

If he was, and he was Janice Lester's boyfriend, the show makes more sense. By becoming Kirk, Lester was killing two birds with one stone: she was cementing her relationship with Coleman along with getting a starship command.

What did the episode intend for Coleman's motivation? In their plan to make a man out of Dr. Lester and say goodbye to her lady parts, he helped her kill a bunch of people. Who does that? He's obviously sinister, but could he possibly be straight?

And if the story intended him to be gay, that's got to be unique for TOS.
 
Doubtful.

"You are as I loved you," he said.

Janice was so consumed with her obsession and hatred that she probably didn't know Coleman had the hots for her.
 
ZapBrannigan said:
If he was, and he was Janice Lester's boyfriend
Click to expand...

Gotta stop you right there. If he were gay, then he wouldn't have a girlfriend. Anyway, there's this exchange at the end:

COLEMAN: You are, you are as I loved you.
JANICE: Kill him.
KIRK: Can you do anything for her?
COLEMAN: I'd like to take care of her.
Click to expand...
Seems to me like he did what he did out of love for Janice to make her happy. "You are as I loved you" basically implies that for himself he'd rather she remained who she was. Wanting to take care of her probably means that he'd rather be with her too. I very much doubt he did it just to get a male partner out of the deal.

Edit - Ninja'd by urbandefault!
 
I thought he looked quite disturbed by Kirk's hand on his shoulder but in still loving Janice's essence which was inside the Captain he decided to help her further! So no he wasn't gay just deluded by his love for Janice Lester! Whether he would have stayed with her as Kirk if she had succeeded is another matter!
JB
 
Interesting interpretation, although I'm definitely sure that's not what the writers intended.

What's curious about Coleman is that by the end of the episode he's been exposed as an accessory to murder. Unlike Lester, he does not appear to have an insanity defense. Yet there is no indication at the end of the episode that he is going to be arrested or have to answer for his crime.
 
CorporalCaptain said:
Gotta stop you right there. If he were gay, then he wouldn't have a girlfriend.
Click to expand...

You wouldn't think so, but it does happen. People are complicated. The band Garfunkel and Oates even wrote a song about it, "Gay Boyfriend," which you can find on youtube. [Note: youtube is blocked for me here at work, but if I recall correctly, the song might be Not Safe for Work.]

Add to that, Coleman and Lester were stuck together on a barren planet, with no one else for company besides some co-workers they didn't seem to care for much.

johnnybear said:
I thought he looked quite disturbed by Kirk's hand on his shoulder but in still loving Janice's essence which was inside the Captain he decided to help her further! So no he wasn't gay just deluded by his love for Janice Lester! Whether he would have stayed with her as Kirk if she had succeeded is another matter!
JB
Click to expand...

This could be what the episode intended, but it's a crazy and deeply stupid way for Coleman to love a woman, if Coleman is heterosexual. I'd say it's a LOT crazier than a gay man having a girlfriend.

ToddPence said:
What's curious about Coleman is that by the end of the episode he's been exposed as an accessory to murder. Unlike Lester, he does not appear to have an insanity defense. Yet there is no indication at the end of the episode that he is going to be arrested or have to answer for his crime.
Click to expand...

At that point I think only Lester, Coleman, and the TV audience know it was murder. To Kirk and company, it looks like an accident. But that doesn't make them getting away with it less disturbing. Lester's employees on Camus II are just out of luck. They lost their lives and get no justice.
 
ToddPence said:
Interesting interpretation, although I'm definitely sure that's not what the writers intended.

What's curious about Coleman is that by the end of the episode he's been exposed as an accessory to murder. Unlike Lester, he does not appear to have an insanity defense. Yet there is no indication at the end of the episode that he is going to be arrested or have to answer for his crime.
Click to expand...

Mindless devotion to Lester wouldn't cut the mustard I guess?
JB
 
ZapBrannigan said:
CorporalCaptain said:
Gotta stop you right there. If he were gay, then he wouldn't have a girlfriend.
Click to expand...

You wouldn't think so, but it does happen. People are complicated. The band Garfunkel and Oates even wrote a song about it, "Gay Boyfriend," which you can find on youtube. [Note: youtube is blocked for me here at work, but if I recall correctly, the song might be Not Safe for Work.]
Click to expand...

That's a song from the perspective of a woman who thinks her boyfriend is a closeted gay man. Yes, it's NSFW.

The Garfunkel and Oates song isn't a good example. It's a song about how a woman comes to terms in her own mind about the limitations of her boyfriend. There's nothing in the song from his perspective, so we don't even know if it's true or not.

Given the dialog we've produced, there's zero subtext in the episode that would suggest anything like such a dynamic. This is a poorly written episode, a blot on canon, that still sparks endless debates about the role of women in Starfleet.

You didn't ask if we thought that Dr. Coleman was a closeted gay man. I'd like to think that coming out isn't a big deal in the 23rd century, so I didn't even consider that as a viable option.

Add to that, Coleman and Lester were stuck together on a barren planet, with no one else for company besides some co-workers they didn't seem to care for much.
Click to expand...
... and who they killed. They're both taking a trip to the Federation funny farm. As murderers, they have many issues that need sorting out.
 
So we're concluding that Coleman was intended as straight, infinitely devoted, selfless, and a tragic nut case. It's not the realistic answer, but it seems to be the writer's intent.
 
All I know that at the end of episode when the exchange was reversed, Kirk looked as though he was happy that he got his balls back. Literally.

:lol:
 
urbandefault said:
Doubtful.

"You are as I loved you," he said.

Janice was so consumed with her obsession and hatred that she probably didn't know Coleman had the hots for her.
Click to expand...

CorporalCaptain said:
ZapBrannigan said:
If he was, and he was Janice Lester's boyfriend
Click to expand...

Gotta stop you right there. If he were gay, then he wouldn't have a girlfriend. Anyway, there's this exchange at the end:

COLEMAN: You are, you are as I loved you.
JANICE: Kill him.
KIRK: Can you do anything for her?
COLEMAN: I'd like to take care of her.
Click to expand...
Seems to me like he did what he did out of love for Janice to make her happy. "You are as I loved you" basically implies that for himself he'd rather she remained who she was. Wanting to take care of her probably means that he'd rather be with her too. I very much doubt he did it just to get a male partner out of the deal.

Edit - Ninja'd by urbandefault!
Click to expand...

I think you're both right.

ToddPence said:
Interesting interpretation, although I'm definitely sure that's not what the writers intended.

What's curious about Coleman is that by the end of the episode he's been exposed as an accessory to murder. Unlike Lester, he does not appear to have an insanity defense. Yet there is no indication at the end of the episode that he is going to be arrested or have to answer for his crime.
Click to expand...

I think that would have been sorted out later, as in they were both going to be commited to Tantalus V colony together.
 
I thought that at this point in the series, there wouldn't be any more "funny farm" or penal colonies for the insane, seeing as how earlier in the season ("Whom Gods Destroy") mental illness was supposed to have been cured "for all time".
 
ToddPence said:
On the subject of Dr. Coleman, here's an interview with actor Harry Landers, in which he speaks briefly about appearing in "Turnabout", which he called "a dreadful experience".

https://classictvhistory.wordpress.com/2011/05/31/an-interview-with-harry-landers/
Click to expand...

Yes, but it;s important to note that it was "dreadful" because of his health situation.

Do you remember doing Star Trek?

Yeah. I was a guest star, and it was a dreadful experience for me. I had just got out of the hospital. I’d had a lung removed, and I was not steady on my feet. Usually I was one take, two takes, print. I was always great with dialogue. This time I was not good. The producer, who produced Ben Casey, insisted I do the job. He said, “Oh, Harry, you can do it.”

Oh, right, Fred Freiberger produced the final season of Star Trek.

Yeah. What a guy! He was a member of the Actors Lab. But I was not happy with that show. It was not one of my better [performances].
Click to expand...
 
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