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Troup Strength - Is Star Fleet A Minor Organisation?

Jefferies

Captain
Captain
I have been wondering what the actual size of Star Fleet during the run of TNG, DS9 and VOY might be in regard to the number of personal in service. Now, I know this has never been mentioned on screen, but I believe there are several clues that give us an indication.

Ships of the Line
From DS9 we get an impression of the total number of combat capable ships in Star Fleet. During the Dominion War we heard of 10 fleets that seemed to represent the main defensive force. In SoA Sisco takes command of the 5th fleet which is comprised of approximately 600 vessels (O’Brien mentions that the opposing Dominion fleet has 1254 ships to which Bashier responds: they outnumber us 2:1). If one multiplies this by 10 you get 6000 ships. If one assumes an average crew of 200, you get 1.2 million personnel.

Support Vessels
This figure does not include support vessels. For every ship at the battlefront there needs to be other ships supplying them with replacements, spare parts and so on. Let’s assume this number is really small like a ratio of 2:1. Let’s also assume these ships have much smaller crews, an average of 50 maybe. This gives us another 600.000 people working for Star Fleet.

Star Bases
In addition, there are at least 700 star bases. This is mentioned in TNG’s The Neutral Zone. Now, star bases vary dramatically in size, from crews in the 10s of thousands to bases that are automated and have no personnel at all. I therefore propose an estimated mean of 1000 crew per base, giving us an additional 700.000 personnel.

Planet Based Facilities
What remains are the people who work at planet based facilities such as the academy, Star Fleet Medical, research institutes, Star Fleet Command etc. I would assume that the bigger members of the Federation will have several of such institutions. In the 24th century the Federation has about 150 members. Let’s assume a third of these are big civilisations like Earth and Vulcan and say each has a handful of star fleet institutions with a personnel mean of 500. This gives us an additional 125.000 people.

In total this adds up to 2.625 million people in active service at the end of the 24th century.

The size of Star Fleet Academy
Does this number hold up? If one takes a closer look at Star Fleet Academy one has to wonder. The academy in San Francisco is the only training facility for Star Fleet officers that is ever mentioned on screen and most main characters of each show, regardless of their origin, seemed to have gone there. If one assumes that the academy is similar in size to a big University (40000 students) one gets a graduate turnout of no more then 10000 a year. If the average service length is 50-60 years (people get a lot older) you end up with about 500.000 officers in service. Thanks to the character of Miles O’Brien we know there are non-coms in Star Fleet, although they seem to be fewer then the amount of officers, but for arguments sake lets say the ratio is 1:1. This gives us no more than 1 million people for Star Fleet to draw on. It might be reasonable to believe that Star Fleet Academy operates additional campuses on other Federation worlds but this has never been indicated. Also keep in mind that on screen the academy did not look big enough to support 40000 students. The size of the facility seemed more suited for 4000 students.

Now, most of the numbers given here are no more then educated guesswork. I would be interested to hear what you think of these estimates and if there is evidence to suggest that Star Fleet might be a lot smaller or maybe even bigger.

Comparison with today
At this point, it is interesting to consider the fact that the US military today has a strength of about 1.3 million active personnel, which comes down to about 0.4% of the population of the USA. This percentage is not uncommon for Western countries and similar to that of France, Britain, Germany etc. If such a number were applied to the Federation with a population of several 100 billion one would think that Star Fleet would have several 100 million personnel, which is clearly not the case

Therefore, is Star Fleet, with a population ratio of something like 0.00x%, a highly marginal organisation? Just think about how much attention would we be paying to the military if only 1 guy in 100.000 were a soldier. Today, numbers like this would mean the US Army, Air Force and Navy together would have to make do with less than 3000 people. This is less than the armed forces of Fiji!

I realise these comparisons are somewhat flawed and irrelevant to the storylines of the show but it’s still interesting to get an understanding of what Star Fleet actually means in practical terms.
 
About 15% of the total personnel in Starfleet are officers, the rest are enlisted.

Just because one fleet has six hundred ships, doesn't mean that they all have. might have more.

Your numbers are way off, average number of crew (officers and enlisted) per ship is closer to the 400 mark, not counting smaller science vessels like the Oberth, Nova, Intrepid, Saber and Steamrunner classes.

Starfleet has millions of personnel spread across 8000 cubic light years. not all of which serve on ships. the mushroom starbases carry about 10,000 plus personnel, and we really have no idea how many ships there are.

judging by the casualty lists from DS9 we see thousands of personnel dying daily. having a little over a million personnel available would deplete Starfleet after only a few weeks.
 
Xeris said:
About 15% of the total personnel in Starfleet are officers, the rest are enlisted.

Just because one fleet has six hundred ships, doesn't mean that they all have. might have more.

Your numbers are way off, average number of crew (officers and enlisted) per ship is closer to the 400 mark, not counting smaller science vessels like the Oberth, Nova, Intrepid, Saber and Steamrunner classes.

Starfleet has millions of personnel spread across 8000 cubic light years. not all of which serve on ships. the mushroom starbases carry about 10,000 plus personnel, and we really have no idea how many ships there are.

judging by the casualty lists from DS9 we see thousands of personnel dying daily. having a little over a million personnel available would deplete Starfleet after only a few weeks.

The Intrepid class is no small ship. In volume it’s probably larger then the Excelsior and it had less then 200 crew members. The other smaller ships you talk about, except maybe for the Oberth, were part of the fleet in SoA. In fact it looked to me as if there were far more smaller ships (mirandas, sabers, steamruners, defiants etc.) then big ones (Galaxies, Sovereign, Nebula)

Also where do you get the idea 85% are enlisted? During the show most of the crew shown had at least an ensign’s rank insignia marking them as officers. Miles O’Brien and the occasional red-shirt crewman are the only indication of non-coms I’m aware of. Even in episodes that centre on lower ranks, such as TNG’s Lower Decks, we get to see officers.

Now I agree with your assessment that Star Fleet SHOULD be bigger. The question is, is it? Where do we get to see this?
 
There are surprisingly many pipless people in TNG and DS9, although the ratio of speaking (or at least named) officers to speaking (or at least named) non-officers remains very high overall. I'd make a guess of a 40/60 ratio for onscreen personnel - but then again, there could be bias there on screen, with the camera only dwelling on "officer decks" and neglecting the areas where the ratings work.

Crew count per ship might well be as low as 200, as per the casualty figures from Wolf 359 (assuming near-total loss of crew per loss of ship). The highest crew count (or crew plus other onboard Starfleet personnel count) ever was for the Grissom, lost with 1,200 personnel in "Field of Fire", although there were mentions of troop convoys or colony transports capable of carrying even more.

To say that thousands died daily may be a bit of an exaggeration. The 1,200 dead on the Grissom were something of a shock to our heroes; OTOH, the casualty list on the briefing room wall featured about a hundred names, and if we had been able to zoom in on it, we'd have seen it did not change daily (or at all!). The daily updates Dax referred to might have been a couple of names rather than a hundred - in no case were entire crews listed lost on that wall chart, as only a few dozen names were under each starship name. True quantitative measures of daily losses were not given in DS9.

Personally, I think a Starfleet of only a couple of million personnel (say, ten million) is what best fits the data, regardless of writer intent. It's not as if Starfleet was seen actively drafting citizens at any point; the force may indeed only involve a millionth of the UFP population or so, and manages its tasks quite nicely with that number.

...Overall, I'd think that a major percentage of UFP citizens are actually idle, their labor not necessary for UFP economy or defense or research. There's no law of nature or sociology that would establish some minimum percentage that has to work in order to keep a society going, or defended, or scientifically active. High tech of this fictional tomorrow might make it desirable to rely on very small labor pools or military forces by personnel count.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Jefferies said:
The size of Star Fleet Academy
Does this number hold up? If one takes a closer look at Star Fleet Academy one has to wonder. The academy in San Francisco is the only training facility for Star Fleet officers that is ever mentioned on screen and most main characters of each show, regardless of their origin, seemed to have gone there. If one assumes that the academy is similar in size to a big University (40000 students) one gets a graduate turnout of no more then 10000 a year. If the average service length is 50-60 years (people get a lot older) you end up with about 500.000 officers in service. Thanks to the character of Miles O’Brien we know there are non-coms in Star Fleet, although they seem to be fewer then the amount of officers, but for arguments sake lets say the ratio is 1:1. This gives us no more than 1 million people for Star Fleet to draw on. It might be reasonable to believe that Star Fleet Academy operates additional campuses on other Federation worlds but this has never been indicated. Also keep in mind that on screen the academy did not look big enough to support 40000 students. The size of the facility seemed more suited for 4000 students.
You're right that only the San Francisco Academy has been shown, but it's not impossible that other facilities exist. Most the main cast members we've seen have been from Earth too, despite the fact that we're repeatedly shown there are many human colonies out there. I like to think there are other Academy campuses, on colony worlds or maybe on starbases.

Pity the show writers never thought about it the way you have.


Marian
 
Timo said:
Personally, I think a Starfleet of only a couple of million personnel (say, ten million) is what best fits the data, regardless of writer intent. It's not as if Starfleet was seen actively drafting citizens at any point; the force may indeed only involve a millionth of the UFP population or so, and manages its tasks quite nicely with that number.

...Overall, I'd think that a major percentage of UFP citizens are actually idle, their labor not necessary for UFP economy or defense or research. There's no law of nature or sociology that would establish some minimum percentage that has to work in order to keep a society going, or defended, or scientifically active. High tech of this fictional tomorrow might make it desirable to rely on very small labor pools or military forces by personnel count.

What you say makes sense. Personally, I also think it would probably be about 10 million in Star Fleet but the logistics we get to see on screen don't seem to add up to that.

Your idea that only a small percentage in the Federation engage in work is interesting. Although, it somehow strikes me as unfair if one considers that Star Fleet Officers seem to have a considerable workload. So much so, it seems difficult for them to care for a family or even form one. However, from an economic point of view the high-tech future of Star Trek clearly has done away with all forms of manual labour. That means the only jobs left are for really brainy people who can deal with science and other academic fields, which sounds like a very harsh class divide to me… Although, from Picard’s speech in First Contact I had the impression everybody tries to contribute somehow in order to better themselves and society in general. Sisco's dad was a cook afterall, and we had that barber on the Enterprise D. But then again how many people are capable of outperforming replictors?
 
The size of Starfleet is a question that usually ends up in very circular debates. Onscreen, it seems like it is a relatively small organization, but logically it should be enormous given that there are over 150 planets in the Federation and some 8000 light-years to cover.

I think it's very easy to think that Starfleet is comprised of several million starships and perhaps billions of personnel to fill its ranks. Personally, though, I wouldn't be surprised if Starfleet is indeed perhaps a shockingly smaller agency than most would think befits an organization as large as the Federation.

I would use an analogy that the size of Starfleet is probably comparable to the number of ships currently in service in the U.S. Navy, but that's just my opinion though...
 
just because there's a formation called the 10th Fleet, doesn't mean there#s literally ten fleets. Military organisations frequently apply random numbers to units in order to disguise their true strength, or perhaps for linguistically pleasing reasons. the US doesn't have 101 Air Assault divisions for example despite there being the 101st Division (Air Assault).

the Fleets in DS9 could merely be, for example, the 2nd, 4th, 5th, 9th and 10th.
 
captcalBOO!n said:
just because there's a formation called the 10th Fleet, doesn't mean there#s literally ten fleets. Military organisations frequently apply random numbers to units in order to disguise their true strength, or perhaps for linguistically pleasing reasons. the US doesn't have 101 Air Assault divisions for example despite there being the 101st Division (Air Assault).

the Fleets in DS9 could merely be, for example, the 2nd, 4th, 5th, 9th and 10th.

Add the 3rd and 7th and you nearly have the whole set.
 
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