Trek Wars: Tormé vs Hurley

[WAMTNG]

Hey there knowledgeable-and-friendly Trek folks!
I am deep into the WAMs for season two now, which is going reasonably smoothly, while still making final edits and tweaks to the WAMs for the back end of season one, which are running now - Home Soil goes out this Wednesday. (Oh, and if you don't know what I'm talking about, please see my sig, below.)

Anyway, Maurice Hurley is head writer in season two, and Tracey Tormé is one of the script editors. They got into a spat - Therin of Andor has already hinted at some of this in a previous post. I get the impression Tormé wasn't the only disgruntled member of the writing team either... What interests me right now is the rumour that Hurley fell out with Roddenberry because the Great Bird of the Galaxy approved a darker storyline that broke with Roddenberry's own guidelines.

The question is, does anybody know which season two episode this was?
Or would like to wildly speculate?
Was it a Tormé story? Or someone else's...?

So: which season two episode broke with Roddenberry's vision, and consequently broke Hurley?
Set your tricorders for wild speculation!

 

[Takeru]

Could it be Measure of a Man? The idea that starfleet would see Data as property and treat him as such when he was established as an officer who went to the academy doesn't feel like it matches Roddenberry's idea of what they were like.
Roddenberry might have approved of the script because the story was so good despite using starfleet as the antagonist.

 

[somebuddyX]

Conspiracy was originally "The Assassins" and had nothing to do with bugs taking over your brain. Apparently it was simply about a group of Starfleet officers attempting a coup to take over the Federation or Starfleet or just Earth. That's what Roddenberry objected to, something like Starfleet officers don't do that (until they do). Wherever I read it (probably Memory Alpha and the TNG Companion), it compared it to the film "Seven Days in May", that maybe Picard's friends were involved, and that it was over the idea of being at peace with the Klingons.
I never found the original script but there is a Bob Justman memo at Roddenberry.com
https://www.roddenberry.com/media/vault/ConspiracyStoryNotes.pdf
ALSO
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation)
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Conspiracy_(episode)#Background_information

I love the idea of this original story idea and as it was also a sequel to parts of "Coming of Age" I think it would have played out differently for Remmick and Quinn. I keep thinking Walker Keel would have been a bad guy in this version but that's just my guess.

 

[Mojochi]

Some good points up the thread about The Measure of a Man being the disputed pick, but it doesn't seem that dark to me, nor was it really implicating all Starfleet, just one whackadoodle officer, which has been a go-to move for the franchise way back into the heady days of TOS.

Honestly, the only dark episode in season 2 IMHO is Q Who?, even going so far as to suggest that they've been a bit too complacent & proud of themselves & needed the kicking they got from the episode's antagonist. That episode is a real dick punch to our heroes.

 

[WAMTNG]

Thanks for wading in on this folks! Some rebuttal and further leads...

Could it be Measure of a Man?

I never would have thought of this as a candidate, but I appreciate the intriguing way your mind is working! But I think this was very much inside Roddenberry's vision, to be honest, and I can rule this out because what we're looking for is an episode that Hurley was unhappy about because it didn't fit the guidelines Roddenberry gave him, but the episode proceeded anyway. Of this gem, Hurley said:

"Stunning. That's the kind of show you want to do... It just worked great, everything about it. And it dealt with an issue in a very interesting way. I thought Whoopi's place was good in that. She's a wonderful actress."​

That does not look like a fit to what we know about these circumstances. I can't rule it out, but I think it unlikely.

Conspiracy was originally "The Assassins" and had nothing to do with bugs taking over your brain.

Hmm... interesting train of thought here, but "Conspiracy" was season one and Hurley didn't officially take over lead writer until season 2, after Dorothy Fontana stepped down. So I think this is just too early to be plausible. Nice tangent, though!

Honestly, the only dark episode in season 2 IMHO is Q Who? ... That episode is a real dick punch to our heroes.

Ha! Well I had the same first thought, actually, 'the only dark episode is "Q Who?". But this simply CANNOT be the one. Why? Because Maurice Hurley wrote the screenplay to "Q Who?". It was his story, and by all accounts he was happy with it too. It has to be a script written by another writer, otherwise Hurley would have no reason to be upset.

The other one I considered for darkness was "Time Squared"... after all, it ends with killing Picard. But guess what? Hurley wrote this one too! That left me stumped - hence my launching of the distress buoy.

The only other I considered was "Pen Pals", wondering if the breaking of the Prime Directive in this story was the issue that Hurley bucked against. But no, apparently he was a fan!

"Somebody's out there, some little kid on some little planet sending out a CQ. Just like I did in my bedroom when I was ten years old with my little crystal sets, sending out CQs and never getting it back. But here somebody says, 'Anybody out there?' and a voice replies, 'Yes.' Wait a minute!"​

The main clue we have is Hurley's Starlog interview, where he said:

"That's just the way it is. Star Trek is not like any other show because it is one unique vision, and if you agree with Gene Roddenberry's vision for the future, you should be locked up somewhere," Hurley declared at the time, "It's wacky doodle, but it's his wacky doodle. If you can't deal with that, you can't do the show. There are rules on top of rules on top of rules... Gene sees this pollyanish view of the future where everything is going to be fine... I don't believe it, but you have to suppress all that and put it aside. You suspend your own feelings and your own beliefs, and you get with his vision... or you get rewritten."​

That suggests it might be as simple as breaking from the optimistic view of the future, or from any one of the "rules on top of rules", about which there are some fragmentary clues.

One possibility to explore, for instance, is a story with conflict between the core cast. This was something Roddenberry ruled out initially, so bending on this could have irked Hurley, because he considered it necessary to uphold Roddenberry's dream (even though he himself apparently considered it "whacky doodle") because that was for him the mission statement for writing on Trek. But none of the late season 2 episodes seem to fit this pattern, unless I'm missing something. Ideas welcome, as always!

Another option is an early season three episode that might have begun production under Hurley's watch. "The Ensigns of Command" was at draft script on 3rd July 1989, for instance, which was before "Peak Performance" aired. Hurley was probably still in the head writer role at that point. But does that seem like an episode that violated Roddenberry's vision of the future to anyone...?

Further wild speculation welcome!

 

[Herbert]

I don't know if the following will be of any help to your project but I found the documentary mentioned below to be quite enlightening about the earlier years of TNG, Hurley, and how some of the dynamics played out between all the various players.

Go to youtube and search for William Shatner Presents Chaos on the Bridge

I can't link it here

 

[Takeru]

I'm not 100% sure Hurley liking Measure of a Man and Pen Pals rules them out, it's possible he was against the story in question at first but changed his mind later, maybe the elements bothering him were toned down in rewrites.

 

[Summer Solstice]

Or would like to wildly speculate?

I wonder if it was "Samaritan Snare" because of the conflict between Picard and Pulaski.

 

[Takeru]

I wonder if it was "Samaritan Snare" because of the conflict between Picard and Pulaski.

I don't see it, that was just how Pulaski was and not really an episode specific thing, she would have been an entirely different character if Hurley had a problem with that part of her character.

 

[Summer Solstice]

That's a good point.

 

[Mojochi]

Ok then......... Soooo....... How about Unnatural Selection, written by John Mason & Mike Gray? Clearly, it had been established in TOS, with one of its most memorable villains, that the view on eugenics & genetic engineering is one of disapproval & potential catastrophic danger for their society (& would become so again by DS9) & yet in this episode we begin with what is seemingly a perfectly normal occurrence of Federation science being used on a station for just that purpose, with no such objections to it (Despite how tragically the circumstances panned out)

Could Hurley have objected to the Federation being shown engaged in this wildly provocative research, when it both morally & canonically shouldn't be?

 

[WAMTNG]

Many thanks for continuing the speculation everyone! I don't think this one is going to ever be settled definitively, but I'm enjoying digging in the sand with y'all!

...William Shatner Presents Chaos on the Bridge

I'd love to see this, but I don't use YouTube on principle. I wonder if there's another way to source it...?

I'm not 100% sure Hurley liking Measure of a Man and Pen Pals rules them out, it's possible he was against the story in question at first but changed his mind later, maybe the elements bothering him were toned down in rewrites.

You're quite right, of course, but he allegedly left the show over this disagreement. If the episode's final form won him over, would he still have quit...?

I wonder if it was "Samaritan Snare" because of the conflict between Picard and Pulaski.

I agree with Plastic Skull here - Pulaski was this way in part because of Hurley and, as Skull says "she would have been an entirely different character if Hurley had a problem with that part of her character." Good angle, though!

Could Hurley have objected to the Federation being shown engaged in this wildly provocative research, when it both morally & canonically shouldn't be?

This is the most plausible suggestion so far, I'd say - and I cannot find any Hurley quote regarding this episode, which is circumstantial evidence in favour of this theory. My key concern for this one is that it's only 7 episodes in, and I was expecting (on no evidence, admittedly) it to be something in the back end (simply because there's a mid-season break,so a disagreement in the first half would have more likely led to departure in the middle).

The inevitable investigation here is what the writer's guide for TNG during the Hurley era actually said. Don't suppose anyone has a line on that artefact...?

 

[Herbert]

I'd love to see this, but I don't use YouTube on principle. I wonder if there's another way to source it...?

There are other options unless you have a problem with all these venues too
https://www.justwatch.com/us/movie/william-shatner-presents-chaos-on-the-bridge

 

[Mudd]

Hurley was very unhappy about "Conspiracy." He supposedly turned thumbs down on it because " Roddenberry will never go for it," only to have Torme pitch it to GR and receive an enthusiastic acceptance.

After that, the knives were out. Torme's stuff would be rewritten and eviscerated until he left.

 

[Farscape One]

What about "Peak Performance"? In the teaser, Kolrami says Picard was initially against the war game because, "Starfleet is not a military organization, it's purpose is exploration." He then directly asks Picard, "Then why am I here?"

A war game implies Starfleet is a military, which is supposed to be against what Roddenberry says. Could this dialogue have been inserted by Hurley as a nod to his disagreement with the episode? (Personally, it's one of my favorites of the entire series because it utilizes everyone very, very well.) The credits show it was solely written by David Kemper (who would later work on seaQuest DSV and most notably become head writer for FARSCAPE), but that certainly doesn't preclude from Hurley adding lines or scenes.


I was also thinking about "Up The Long Ladder", which Melinda Snograss has sole writer credit. As badly as the episode has been received, and the fact Hurley is Irish (on Memory Alpha, Snodgrass said he leads the Saint Patrick's Day Parade), could this be a possibility?

 

[Mudd]

I was also thinking about "Up The Long Ladder", which Melinda Snograss has sole writer credit. As badly as the episode has been received, and the fact Hurley is Irish (on Memory Alpha, Snodgrass said he leads the Saint Patrick's Day Parade), could this be a possibility?

No. Why would it even be a consideration? Hurley liked Snodgrass' writing, hired and encouraged her. He wouldn't have had a problem with anything in "Ladder," nor is there any reason to think that Roddenberry did.

The conflict between Hurley and Torme was over "Conspiracy."

 

[Farscape One]

I believe the question was what was the thing that made Hurley leave TNG, which I thought that might a posdibility.

According to Memory Alpha, budget and time were issues with "Up The Long Ladder", so it's possible there was execution problems of the script that Hurley had issues with.

 

[BillJ]

I believe the question was what was the thing that made Hurley leave TNG, which I thought that might a posdibility.

According to Memory Alpha, budget and time were issues with "Up The Long Ladder", so it's possible there was execution problems of the script that Hurley had issues with.

Just a general change in direction I would imagine, as Rick Berman consolidated his power on the show and GR's waned. Then there is the whole thing with Gates McFadden, who supposedly left the show because of Hurley's presence.

 

[WAMTNG]

Hurley was very unhappy about "Conspiracy." He supposedly turned thumbs down on it because " Roddenberry will never go for it," only to have Torme pitch it to GR and receive an enthusiastic acceptance. After that, the knives were out. Torme's stuff would be rewritten and eviscerated until he left.

Thanks for this account. I well believe "Conspiracy" was an issue, but I find it hard to believe that Hurley stuck out a whole year after this. I mean, maybe he didn't want to step down at the point he was getting his promotion - and maybe he wanted to see through the arcs he was working on (which didn't happen until 'the back 9' of season 2). But I feel intuitively there might have been a problem episode in season 2.

As this thread shows, though, it's not that easy to construct a compelling account based on the evidence. So your account is the strongest evidentially... but it's not so strong as to shut down all the alternative explanations.

Many thanks for wading in with this, though!

 

[WAMTNG]

Just a general change in direction I would imagine, as Rick Berman consolidated his power on the show and GR's waned. Then there is the whole thing with Gates McFadden, who supposedly left the show because of Hurley's presence.

Aye, but Hurley axed McFadden and/or McFadden left at the end of season one/start of season two. It's a plausible hypothesis that Berman's gaining power forced Hurley out, but the only voiced opinions we have single out a conflict with Roddenberry.

But perhaps Thread Creep is right that the problem episode was "Conspiracy", but Berman's power gain that you highlight was a 'final straw'. I don't know, though... none of these explanations fits together so neatly for it to be a slam dunk. Perhaps this will remain a mystery indefinitely...

Many thanks to everyone who waded in on this! It's been a fascinating discussion.