Trek have warrant officers at all?
- Thread starter TEH BABA
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Except he was referred to specifically as a Chief Petty Officer, never a Chief Warrant Officer.
If he's "an Enlisted man" then he isn't a Warrant Officer. Warrent Officer's aren't "Enlisted"
If Trek didn't insist on every officer being a qualified pilot, I would imagine some warrant officers could be found piloting shuttles and runabouts...
And not just O'Brien.
Anyone that's referred to as crewman or who have no rank pips at all must be enlisted.
Anyone that's referred to as crewman or who have no rank pips at all must be enlisted.
Where's that from? McCoy wouldn't know forward from reverse in a shuttle.
Today, the concept of warrant officer exists because the militaries are in need of highly trained specialists who still aren't sufficiently enamored with the low pay and shitty working conditions of military life to sell their souls to lifelong officerdom.
Originally, warrants were given to the highest-ranking enlisted folks to make them feel better about the fact that they knew more about their jobs than the officers above them did. That was particularly a navy thing, where the masters of the ships might be ignorant landlubber noblemen, and their lieutenants little better.
Today, one gives a warrant to a person who knows how to work and repair a radar without the army having to train him for that from the beginning. The officer above him is no longer a degenerate doofus, but he still doesn't have to obtain a degree in electrical engineering when he can have such a specialist warranted to serve under him.
In the Trek future, people with advanced specialist training can be found both in the officer and enlisted groups; there is no special need to reward with a warrant those enlisteds who agree to offer their specialist services, as they either aren't interested in that particular kind of glory, or then can simply become officers if they really are interested. They don't need to have a duke or a baronet for a father in order to get their collar pips any more. And they don't have to choose between a brief stint and a lifelong committment, either, because some like O'Brien seem to enlist for lifelong entire careers, while others like Worf get a commission but then swiftly move to something else.
It's something of a stretch of credibility that the 24th century has a division to enlisted and commissioned folks at all. But omitting the warrant folks from in between would be a good and logical start.
Timo Saloniemi
Originally, warrants were given to the highest-ranking enlisted folks to make them feel better about the fact that they knew more about their jobs than the officers above them did. That was particularly a navy thing, where the masters of the ships might be ignorant landlubber noblemen, and their lieutenants little better.
Today, one gives a warrant to a person who knows how to work and repair a radar without the army having to train him for that from the beginning. The officer above him is no longer a degenerate doofus, but he still doesn't have to obtain a degree in electrical engineering when he can have such a specialist warranted to serve under him.
In the Trek future, people with advanced specialist training can be found both in the officer and enlisted groups; there is no special need to reward with a warrant those enlisteds who agree to offer their specialist services, as they either aren't interested in that particular kind of glory, or then can simply become officers if they really are interested. They don't need to have a duke or a baronet for a father in order to get their collar pips any more. And they don't have to choose between a brief stint and a lifelong committment, either, because some like O'Brien seem to enlist for lifelong entire careers, while others like Worf get a commission but then swiftly move to something else.
It's something of a stretch of credibility that the 24th century has a division to enlisted and commissioned folks at all. But omitting the warrant folks from in between would be a good and logical start.
Timo Saloniemi
With all due respect (I hesitate to challenge Timo on anything) I just don't buy the idea that lines of command will ever become as egalitarian as he suggests. I think it has less to do with human nature than the practical needs of command structure. If you try to reconcile O'Brien's service as Tactical Officer with the rest of his career, giving him a warrant would have allowed him the prestige (and pay if they have it) of an officer even though he clearly was not an Academy grad. A warrant is an excellent way of helping retain technical experts who otherwise would probably be lost after they topped out in the enlisted ranks. It also would be a reward for outstanding enlisted men who would show the smarts and leadership abilities to be officers but who would otherwise not qualify.
Ha ha. Cute.
You know full well what I mean.
It was the masters who were expert seamen. The captains and lieutenants were the ignorant landlubbers who came aboard for the military mission.
First of all, let's draw a distinction between US and UK/Commonwealth warrant officers. In the British systems, WOs are senior enlisted, more like a US E-8 or E-9. In the US forces, they are closer to commissioned officers in pay, privileges and status, but are limited to career specialties. The US type WOs were actually inherited from the Royal Navy, but the RN phased them out after WW2.
The basic reason for originally having warrant officers was social class. In the sailing RN, a ship's master was the equal of a lieutenant in pay and status, but couldn't become a commissioned officer or be promoted to a higher rank. If they were equal to lieutenants aboard ship, why not just make them lieutenants? Because they came from the wrong kind of social background, and were considered "working men," not "gentlemen" like commissioned officers were supposed to be.
It turned out that the US forces found it useful to have a class in between commissioned and enlisted. Except for the air force. The USAF figures that if someone needs or deserves officer status in their job, give them a commission. If they are in a narrow specialty, they may never be promoted to the upper ranks, but now WOs in the other services go to W-5, the warrant parallel of lieutenant colonel, which is about as far as most commissioned officers go before retirement, anyway.
So it basically comes down to tradition, and having a way to differentiate between specailists and generalist leaders. But as things move along technologically, specialization becomes more common. With most of the world's armed forces (and the USAF) today getting along without a warrant officer class, I think it would probably die out in any global/interplanetary combined military/paramilitary service.
--Justin
Justin, great post! The discussions about warrant rank always get my interest since my father was one of the last of Air Force warrant officers when he retired in 1970. As he explained it, warrant rank was no bed of roses: enlisted men and NCO's resented your status and pay, while officers looked down on you, so cultural considerations may have had something to do with the phase out. My dad was a motor pool officer and IIRC his billet was converted to a Civil Service position. I wouldn't be surprised if those kinds of specialty billets are being civilianized in all the services. As the specialist billets disappear so would the need for warrant officers to fill them.
If Tom Clancy has it right, the Russian navy makes extensive use of warrant ranks to distinguish between draftee enlisted men and NCO's and more highly trained career enlisted personnel.
Certainly your arguments and Timo's make good sense, but I just think that human nature is such that the need for some sort of "wedge" rank system will never die out entirely.
If Tom Clancy has it right, the Russian navy makes extensive use of warrant ranks to distinguish between draftee enlisted men and NCO's and more highly trained career enlisted personnel.
Certainly your arguments and Timo's make good sense, but I just think that human nature is such that the need for some sort of "wedge" rank system will never die out entirely.
According to the page at Memory Alpha on the subject, there are no official references to Warrant Officers at any time in the Star Trek universe, although it is surmised that Warp Specialist Kosinski (from TNG: "Where No One Has Gone Before") may have been a W.O. due to his highly specialized field of knowledge.
According to the Trek Wiki, there is apparently a reference to O'Brien being a Chief Warrant Officer, but that had been discussed earlier in the thread.
This page has a great break-down of the 24th century ranks. No W.O.'s listed.
According to the Trek Wiki, there is apparently a reference to O'Brien being a Chief Warrant Officer, but that had been discussed earlier in the thread.
This page has a great break-down of the 24th century ranks. No W.O.'s listed.
Indeed, but to recap: the older Encyclopedias suggested that O'Brien's unique collar pip (the single black one) marked a Warrant Officer, but this was not based on any kind of onscreen dialogue or other canon proof. That's the full extent of "warrant officers" in official Trek material, canon or backstage.
Timo Saloniemi
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