TOS-TNG-DS9 and Why They Fit Together Nicely

[Anwar]

The part of "Birthright" Braga did (Part One) was actually quite good, as I remember. Nice characterization for Data, Worf and Bashir and an excellent set-up for part two.

Hard to believe that the guy who botched the story was Rene Echevarria.

 

[Kegek]

^
Hey, everybody's got their off days. They're only human. Naren Shankar was responsible for that daft warp drive barrier idea, for example.

 

[jimbtnp2]

Anwar said:
Braga didn't become his right-hand-man until VOY S4, before that he was just a writer and he wasn't even around in TNG S1-2.

And Berman may have been the Exec, but Piller had a more direct hand in the writing of TNG and DS9's first two seasons because he was an actual screenwriter. Hell, Berman didn't take a really direct role in the writing of the series until VOY, before that he did leave more to Piller, Tayor and the others.

And you're the guy who thinks that none of the shows post-TOS did "sci-fi storytelling" so I doubt you'd know what real sci-fi storytelling was anyways.

berman was pulling the strings, period, just listen to the music post s3

braga had his ear

as far as scifi? start with TOS, but the 50's/60's classics and writers such as herbert, bradberry, hg wells are alot more memorable than "the Price" or "i borg"

 

[Anwar]

Braga did NOT have his ear, not until VOY. Back then it was Michael Piller and Ron Moore who had his ear more, and Piller was more a partner than anything else.

Music, so what? It was better than some of the silly techno-disco music we had in S1 and S2.

Anything is more memorable than "The Price" or "I, Borg.", well aside from a lot of stuff in TOS S3.

 

[ChristopherPike]

TNG-DS9-VOY for me. Cheese, then chalk and back to cheese again...

 

[patlandness]

Brutal Strudel said:

I'm a TOS luddite who happens to like DS9. I like DS9 partially because, of all the spin-offs, it was the show that seemed to really love and revere TOS. The other three all seemed to think they were superior to it. Not that's a larff!

That's crap. TNG showed more respect to Roddenberry's creation than the 3 shows that came after.

Just because they didn't have constant mention of Tribbles, Gorn, and Orion Slave Girls and saying "Kirk is God", doesn't change that.

The episode "Darmok" proves that conclusively.

 

[Noname Given]

patlandness said:
Recently I got Star Trek: The Next Generation and Star Trek: Deep Space Nine complete series sets on DVD to go with my Star Trek: The Original Series (or just "Star Trek" as some of you TOS-only Luddites insist on ) DVDs, and have been just thrilled with how well these 3 shows just "click" together for the most part in their own way. It's sort of a trilogy in my eyes.

I mean if you watch DS9's "Emissary" and "Trials and Tribble-ations" back-to-back you'll see what I mean, the 3 Trekkian universes just blend in so well together with a little imagination and dramatic flair on the part of the DS9 writers.

I think why these 3 shows do that is that while they are distinctly different from each other they were made with loving care by dedicated people who really "got it". Sure neither TOS, TNG, or DS9 were perfect (despite some hardliners may say), but even in their lesser episodes, there was a sense of spontenaity and experimentation rather than tiredly going-through-the-motions like UPN Trek.

What say you all? I'm sure I'll hear from the TOS-only crowd along with TOS-DS9 chic movement--disregarding TNG's contribution to the franchise. (Come on TNG fans speak out for your favorite show! I know you're out there! ) And there are those that are a fan of all 5 shows (and that's cool, I suppose). But I want to know:

Are there any fans of this "Trekkian Trilogy" or am I whistling in the dark?

TNG doesn't and NEVER 'fit' with TOS. TOS had actual human beings with faults and actual human emotions that made difficult choices in difficult circumstances; and sometime butted-heads as they did it; but in the end worked together to achieve a goal.

TNG had painfully Politically-Correct constructs that had no real issues; or anything beyond cliche emotions. They never had any real/actual human conflict between each other (unless controlled by some outside entity); and were ALWAYS 'in the right'; as Picard ALWAYS had the proper PC answer; which he often hit the audience over the head with as an episode progressed.

DS9 came closer to TOS in it's later seasons, but it was still rife with many of 'moral superiority' aspects of TNG that made it hard to swallow at times.

TNG was te result of Gene Roddenberry believing his own ovwerblown hype about what really made TOS special; and TNG was the unfortunate result of that.

TOS (imo) was one of a kind. And as a TOS fan who saw that series first run on NBC; honestly, the ONLY modern Star Trek series that came close to recapturing the original feel of TOS was in fact Enterprise (mostly in its first and fourth seasons).

TNG from day one always felt like a pale imitation, with a slick look, but very little of the actual substance that made (and still makes) TOS stand alone.

YMMV.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

patlandness said:
Recently I got Star Trek: The Next Generation and Star Trek: Deep Space Nine complete series sets on DVD to go with my Star Trek: The Original Series (or just "Star Trek" as some of you TOS-only Luddites insist on ) DVDs, and have been just thrilled with how well these 3 shows just "click" together for the most part in their own way. It's sort of a trilogy in my eyes.

I mean if you watch DS9's "Emissary" and "Trials and Tribble-ations" back-to-back you'll see what I mean, the 3 Trekkian universes just blend in so well together with a little imagination and dramatic flair on the part of the DS9 writers.

I think why these 3 shows do that is that while they are distinctly different from each other they were made with loving care by dedicated people who really "got it". Sure neither TOS, TNG, or DS9 were perfect (despite some hardliners may say), but even in their lesser episodes, there was a sense of spontenaity and experimentation rather than tiredly going-through-the-motions like UPN Trek.

What say you all? I'm sure I'll hear from the TOS-only crowd along with TOS-DS9 chic movement--disregarding TNG's contribution to the franchise. (Come on TNG fans speak out for your favorite show! I know you're out there! ) And there are those that are a fan of all 5 shows (and that's cool, I suppose). But I want to know:

Are there any fans of this "Trekkian Trilogy" or am I whistling in the dark?

You and me, both, the same, thinking!

Pretty much how I see it, a Trekkian Trilogy of films and series that cover a universe very well. I refuse to aknowledge VOY and ENT ever happened.

I love the term Big Three, as well. Pretty much covers it for me.

Overall, great analysis and, kudos!

 

[Malcom]

Warped9 said:

Good thing you're not afraid of the dark. The three series have very little in common.

Ain't that the truth!

 

[ktanner3]

TNG doesn't and NEVER 'fit' with TOS. TOS had actual human beings with faults and actual human emotions that made difficult choices in difficult circumstances; and sometime butted-heads as they did it; but in the end worked together to achieve a goal.

I don't believe he said that they fit in the sense that they are the same. They fit because TNG and DS9 was a nice progression of the idea of Star Trek. Why would you want a span of series that copies each other?

TNG had painfully Politically-Correct constructs that had no real issues; or anything beyond cliche emotions. They never had any real/actual human conflict between each other (unless controlled by some outside entity); and were ALWAYS 'in the right'; as Picard ALWAYS had the proper PC answer; which he often hit the audience over the head with as an episode progressed.

I can think of Kirk and a certain little "That's why we're aboard her" speech that certainly came off as preachiness to me. He also kept trying to prove to the organions that the federation was so much better than the Klingons.. And that preachiness with TNG did grate on me as well the first year. I almost turned it off .

DS9 came closer to TOS in it's later seasons, but it was still rife with many of 'moral superiority' aspects of TNG that made it hard to swallow at times.

DS9 was nothing like TNG from the second season onward.The first three episodes were serialized and they dealt with religion, two things you would have never seen on TNG.You had a cast whose characters were always in conflict with each other: Odo was always fighting with Quark, Kira occasionaly butted heads with Sisko, Obrian and Bashir butted heads before becoming friends. Sisko and his whole "It's easy to be a saint in paradise" speech. The show dared to question the utopian image of the federation. There are so many examples of how different DS9 is. I just don't see how anyone could watch DS9 and think "Similiar to TNG"

 

[Warped9]

Anwar said:
Of course YOU would say that...

And I am eternally thankful for being perceptive.

 

[CaptJimboJones]

Well I know we all enjoy the occasional "this series rocks, that series sucks!" bashfests, I'll go out on a limb and say I'm a fan of the Big Five. While they all have their various faults and strengths, and some are under-rated while others are over-rated, I'm in the (apparently small) group that really enjoys all five of the Trek shows and feels like they fit together pretty darn well.

(And lest one things I disregarded TAS, I consider it an extension of TOS, so it's certainly among the Big 5.)

 

[Anwar]

Warped9 said:

Anwar said:
Of course YOU would say that...

And I am eternally thankful for being perceptive.

I wasn't aware that perceptive also meant "off in his own little world"...

 

[number6]

CaptJimboJones said:
Well I know we all enjoy the occasional "this series rocks, that series sucks!" bashfests, I'll go out on a limb and say I'm a fan of the Big Five. While they all have their various faults and strengths, and some are under-rated while others are over-rated, I'm in the (apparently small) group that really enjoys all five of the Trek shows and feels like they fit together pretty darn well.

(And lest one things I disregarded TAS, I consider it an extension of TOS, so it's certainly among the Big 5.)

I am kind of in that camp too, though my top three, TOS-DS9-ENT best captured the spirit of the original show moreso than TNG and VOY.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Anwar said:

Warped9 said:

Anwar said:
Of course YOU would say that...

And I am eternally thankful for being perceptive.

I wasn't aware that perceptive also meant "off in his own little world"...

Knock it off