TOS Female Dress Uniform

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Koloth TOS, Oct 3, 2022.

  1. Koloth TOS

    Koloth TOS Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    The Enterprise's Top Brass, Kirk, Spock, McCoy and Scotty all had their full dress uniforms when occasion demanded it, e. g. in Journey To Babel, Court Martial, The Menagery, The SAvage Courtain, Is There In Truth No Beauty, Space Seed, etc.

    It seems that only lt cmdrs and higher ranks had their specific gala dress, since Uhura and other lieutenants wore their duty uniforms respectively.

    There are a few exceptions (photos Courtesy of Trekcore.com)[​IMG] :
    1. The officer commanding the honor guard welcoming Abe Lincoln in "The Savage Courtain" was lt. Dickerson.
    [​IMG]
    2. The court "aide" or "clerk" in "Court Martial", in red uniform with tricorder in the middle of the background, supposed to be a lieutenant.
    3. Lt Areel Shaw, district attorney on starbase 11, left to Spock.

    There are some questions coming to my mind:
    1. Why do not all lieutenants have a dress uniform?
    2. Why do the dress uniforms of the court clerk and Areel Shaw sport the starbase flower badge instead of the awards that you would expect and actually see on the uniforms of Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Scotty, Dickerson and the court judges of starbase 11?
    3. Why does Lt Shaw have rank braids and the clerk does not (don't tell me it was an ensign)?

    Spock would say that it is illogical not to expect analog design of the female dress uniforms following the male design. That said it would be rather surprising to see a black collar on the female red dress, starbase flower badge and rank stripes. The only thing adopted from the male dress ist the gold piping we see on the black collar.
    4. Why is Lt Shaw's skirt considerably longer than the mini skirts of the female officer's? Due to the fear of disregard to the court? Why do all other female officers who are attending the court sport the mini skirt then?
    [​IMG]
    5. Logic would dictate a female dress uniform following the male version:
    - collar in tunic color (shiny fabric, of course)
    - no starbase flower or starfleet delta
    - awards (if so)
    - no rank braids
    - small gold piping or large braids decorating the uniform according to the rank
    Basically we would expect the shiny fabric of nurse Chapel's duty uniform:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Or the same model in red, to be seen on a waitress in the bar of starbase 11 (Court Martial), not so tight as Ms Chapel's and quite lose fitting:
    [​IMG]
    BTW why do the waitresses on space station k7 (Trouble with Tribbles) do sport different dresses whereas the bartenders share the same outfit?

    My conclusion: The collar (in dress color) of a female lieutenant would have a gold piping running down the seam to the split of the mini (!) skirt, no rank braids, but award decorations (if so) instead.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2022
  2. drt

    drt Commodore Commodore

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    I always thought Shaw's was the dress uniform, the construction and cut were certainly different, wasn't it also made out of the shinier material? I suppose if it had a red collar and thicker gold trim, as you suggest, if would have fit in a bit better with the mens'.
     
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  3. J.T.B.

    J.T.B. Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    The dress uniforms were not fully thought out, that's for sure, but I give Theiss a lot of credit for taking it as far as they did. They were more developed than, say, uniforms in OS BSG or Buck Rogers in the 25th Century.

    But there are issues determining rank. Commodore Stone has additional gold sleeve piping, but Commodore Mendez's uniform is basically like Kirk's, and of course lieutenant commanders McCoy and Scott wear the same uniform as Lieutenant Dickerson.

    I think the Lt Shaw costume is the female dress uniform. The longer length is more formal, the material is similar to the male dress jackets, and of course the gold piping. Why it has rank stripes and the assignment badge, well, it just does!

    I would add that it is not uncommon in the real world for some formal uniforms to be completely optional, or optional for those below a certain rank. Below is a photo of a US Navy air squadron's formal mess event. Notice that some are wearing the short mess jacket with bow ties and blue (black) trousers, and some are just wearing their regular dress whites with miniature medals. In the US Navy, mess jacket uniforms are required for lieutenant commanders and up, and optional for everyone else. This might be comparable to the dinner scene in "Space Seed," when the senior officers wore dress uniforms and the junior ones didn't.

    mess_dress_uniforms.png

    Years ago I came up with a rank scheme that accounted for each rank, ensign to commodore, on the dress jackets, though obviously it doesn't align with the onscreen Lt Dickerson.

    tos_dress_jacket_ranks.png
     
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  4. BK613

    BK613 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    One could squint and interpret Shaw's (and the clerk's) uniform as the 'service dress' version of the uniform. IOW, a working uniform that's upscale from the regular (shipboard) uniform but not a formal dress uniform like the trial board is wearing. Hence, the starbase insignia.
    We had something similar for enlisted personnel to wear back in the day (short-sleeve button-down shirt and white trousers) because dress whites (the navy white jumper) was a very, very impractical day-to-day uniform.
     
  5. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    One would hope Starfleet would have different degrees of uniforms, including the more utility style in the jumpsuit, the standard work uniform, the business uniform (Shaw's and the other officer of the court), and then full dress with ribbons/awards.
     
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  6. Elder Knight

    Elder Knight Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I once attended the wedding of a college friend. Her father, retired U.S. Navy, told me "I looked it up and it said that rank Major and above may wear military dress to civilian social functions." Now, he was merely a Captain, but he said "I can still fit in my uniform, so I'll just amend that directive." I put on my best suit, the Captain saved the price of a tuxedo rental, and father and daughter looked just great together.
     
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  7. scotpens

    scotpens Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    Major is an Army/Air Force/Marine Corps rank, not Navy.
     
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  8. Elder Knight

    Elder Knight Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Of course. Well, whatever it was, he unilaterally promoted himself one rank: Major to Colonel or Captain to Major, something like that.

    It's the insubordinate thought that counts! ;)
     
  9. Donald G

    Donald G Commander Red Shirt

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    No unilateral promotion required.
    A naval Captain is the equivalent of a full bird Colonel.
    A naval Commander is the equivalent of a Lieutenant Colonel.
    A naval Lieutenant Commander is equivalent to a Major.
    A naval Lieutenant is equivalent to an Army/Air Force/Marine Corps Captain.
    A naval Lieutenant junior grade is equivalent to an Army/Air Force/Marine Corps First Lieutenant.
    A naval Ensign is equivalent to an Army/Air Force/Marine Corps Second Lieutenant.
     
  10. Neopeius

    Neopeius Admiral Admiral

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    He may have been confused about the service, not the rank. I doubt the Navy Captain promoted himself to Admiral... ;)

    I can't find any reference to military uniforms being forbidden at a wedding below a certain rank, though.

    Not to be a nuhdge, but why not? Is he called a lieutenant in the show?
     
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  11. valkyrie013

    valkyrie013 Commodore Commodore

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    Haven't watched JAG or NCIS ... Well never, but don't remember if during a trial what uniform they were wearing.
    Usmc had 4 levels.
    Utlity: ship/field work uni.
    Charlie: short sleeve dress,
    Bravo: long sleeve tie dress.
    Alpha: bravo with a fraking heavy jacket.

    I belive alpha was the uniform for trials. There is a more "dressy" form of dress blues for the fancy stuff parades but not used for trials. Maybe akin to the whites in Inserection.

    Alphas have all the medals etc. On them
    Every person down to private had alphas, so my guess would be everyone in court, for court business, unless your just watching, or maybe some lower court personel would be wearing alphas.
    Defiantly any lawyer, defendent, judge.
     
  12. urbandefault

    urbandefault Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Sickbay, dammit.
    (NCIS is a civilian service. No uniforms. BTW, I recently finished 19 seasons of NCIS and can't recall a single trial. :techman:)
     
  13. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Nope, no trials. Lots of gun play though.
     
  14. J.T.B.

    J.T.B. Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Sounds reasonable. The only argument against it I can see is that the prescribed uniform for something like a court martial is usually the same for everyone participating.

    I think all the US services have basically the same rules: Retired members may wear uniforms for ceremonial occasions, including weddings, regardless of rank. The rules in the UK are apparently different: Unless you're active duty, you have to have special permission to wear a uniform, as recently seen with Prince Andrew at the queen's funeral.
     
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  15. BK613

    BK613 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Valid point, though Starfleet's de-emphasis on pomp and circumstance might be on display here. The personnel officer seems exempt and we do see Shaw still in the same uniform on the bridge in the final scene.
    I'm really warming up to the idea of the shipboard uniform as being SF's version of khakis.

    Yes, with the caveat that the wearer is not usurping the reputation of the service for expressing a private belief.
    The only rank-based restriction I could find in a cursory search dealt with the wearing of swords. Only Lt Commanders and above can wear the sword with the dress uniform in the US Navy.
     
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  16. Henoch

    Henoch Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Don't give the writers of SNW more bad ideas. Next thing we see is Pike (or is it mirror-Pike) walking around with a sword in his dress uniform.
     
  17. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    This is not a new idea. I like it quite a bit.
     
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  18. BK613

    BK613 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    If they did, Anson Mount would so make it work. ;)
     
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  19. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Commodore Commodore

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    I've thought about it. I want Pike with a sword too.
    I especially want Number One with a sword too.
     
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  20. 1001001

    1001001 Workin' Them Angels Moderator

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    I'm waiting for her to turn blue.

    :shifty: