TOS Christmas always around Stardate X700.X?

The other thread here at the BBS - http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=234109 - just got me thinking about the wall painting of the TOS Chapel featured in "Balance of Terror" and "The Tholian Web".

IMHO, it's an abstract but very recognizable representation of a Christmas tree.

The inevitable question would of course be whether its actually there for the other 364 days of the year. Was it possible that the events of these episodes took place around Christmas time?

• Stardate 1709.2 - Balance of Terror
• Stardate 2715.9 - Dagger of the Mind (reference to apparently recent science lab Christmas party)
• Stardate 5693.2 - The Tholian Web (Chapel background looks identical to one from BT)

I think it's fair to say that the Romulans were to some extent an analogy to the Japanese in WWII. Had the Japanese Navy attacked Pearl Harbor on the 25th of December, the devastating results would have probably been the same. Maybe the Romulan attack on the Earth Outposts in BT took Christmas time into account?

Bob

 

"In accordance with our ... many beliefs" indicates tolerance towards different religious beliefs, but the crew members wouldn't be allowed to decorate the chapel with the corresponding devotional objects for the corresponding days?!?

And I merely said they had the abstract Christmas tree (TOS was an American TV series targeted at American audiences and I'm rather confident that many recognized a Christmas tree shape) up on display because it was possibly around Christmas time. For other religious holidays something different would presumably be there on display.

Bob

 

I suppose it's possible. But I didn't take the comment about the Christmas party in the science lab (which science lab? There's fourteen!) to mean it was recent. Dr. Noel recalled meeting Kirk there but Kirk apparently didn't remember her, so I took it to be long enough ago for him to have forgotten. If it were recent wouldn't Kirk have not looked surprised when he found out Dr. Noel was a woman?

 

Here is the chronology of events in "Dagger of the Mind":

MCCOY [on monitor]: Oh, I'm assigning your technical aide, Captain. One of our psychiatrists does have a background in rehabilitative therapy. Doctor Noel, standing by in the transporter room now.
KIRK: Thank you, Doctor. Bridge out. Mister Spock.

It looks like Kirk has no idea, yet, who "Dr. Noel" (in French that would be "Dr. Christmas" by the way, what a coincidence! ) actually is.

That changes the moment he sees "Dr. Noel":

KIRK: Co-ordinates?
BERKELEY: Locked in, sir. Ready to beam down.
NOEL: Doctor Helen Noel, Captain. We've met. Don't you remember the science lab Christmas party?
KIRK: Yes, I remember.
NOEL: You dropped in
KIRK: Yes, yes, I remember.
SPOCK: Problem, Captain?
KIRK: Mister Spock, you tell McCoy that she had better check out as the best assistant I ever had. Energise.

Now, Kirk understands who Dr. Noel actually is ("Helen"), remembers very well what happened in (one) science lab's Christmas party and feels rather uncomfortable about the whole situation.

IMHO, it's obvious that Helen Noel still has a crush on Captain Kirk which tells me that this Christmas party didn't happen that long ago (especially since Dr. Noel is the kind of woman that probably gets plenty of attention from other members of the crew ).

Bob

@ Avro Arrow

These two episodes were the only ones featuring the Chapel. While we do not "know" the intent of the TOS producers, I'd say that had they intended not to invite allusions to a Christmas tree (split into 3 parts alluding to "Trinity"), they would have probably chosen a motif less ambiguous.

 

So Kirk knew her as "Helen" then found her surname was Noel in DotM? Possibly, but your X700-ish = Xmas is still thin. Interesting but thin.

 

I think the OP has something here. It's not firmly established, but there's more than enough to support a fan's personal preference to put Christmas around x700.

 

Of course, assuming Christmas is around Stardate X700, that would probably put Thanksgiving "on Earth" in the 23rd Century (Stardate 1533.7) into early October where Thanksgiving is celebrated in Canada or Erntedankfest in Germany.

Possibly that's the time Bill Shatner had in mind when mentioning it.

Bob

 

Since a Christmas tree/pine tree isn't a religious symbol in Christianity it would be an odd choice. I'd say it's a Druid symbol and the wedding was in that tradition.

 

Obviously the Christmas Tree is already displacing Christian symbols like the Christmas Crib, so by the 23rd Century it would appear that the Christmas Tree could just be as well the universally accepted (religious) symbol for Christmas.

Bob

 

That's a bit of a stretch. If anything, the tree along with Santa Claus has become a symbol of secular Christmas. The one that comes from pagan traditions grafted on to Christian ones. Hence my Druid joke.

 

...and, of course, there's Kirk's memorial service in his Druid Tradition (Iowa Synod).

 

Kirk's a Scottish name. The family reverted to Druidism.

 

No.

 

Santa Claus was effectively a replacement for the more religiously oriented St. Nicholas and other recognized "gift bringers," at least in America. There's a blurring of the characters during the 19th century particularly in the first half. Santa's acceptance might be partially attributable to him shedding obvious religious elements in his attire. He also ceased carrying a rod (or having a companion) for disciplining naughty children despite the continuing admonishment for children to be good and not pout or cry. The sole remaining recourse for Santa toward naughty children was that he simply wouldn't bring them anything. So, at least in the beginning, Santa did retain some measure of religious connotation. But, of course, that's long been lost particularly in contemporary society.

His metamorphosis can even be seen in the evolution of his name: St. Nicholas to Sainte Claus to Santa Claus.

Interestingly the Christmas Tree---long believed to be something transplanted from wide practice in Germany---was almost as novel in Germany (and Europe) as it was in America. The practice of having a Christmas Tree apparently wasn't a widespread German tradition, but rather relegated to a very few local areas. The practice spread throughout Germany and England and such at pretty much the same time it did in America. It's also largely a myth that the knowledge of Christmas Trees was introduced to America because of Queen Victoria and Prince Albert having one in England when in fact the practice had alreday begun to take root in America years earlier.

I haven't found a clear connection, but I do wonder if the Christmas Tree is an idea derived from the older tradition of the Yule Log, which was brought into the home (or into the centre of a community) and decorated and treated much like the later Christmas Tree, before it was later put to fire after the holiday. And, of course, the Yule Log tradition is still continued today in some places.

Now back to our regularly scheduled subject.

 

I believe a lot of the "wintery" imagery we associate with Santa Claus comes from Woden/Odin in Germanic pagan tradition. That was merged with St. Nicholas.

Yule is also pagan Germanic in origin.

 

It's difficult to pinpoint exactly what influences went into the emergence of Santa Claus. Of course there's the apparent Dutch influence of Sinterklaas, but it's not a concrete connection beyond the similar sounding name because the Sinterklaas personage doesn't seem to have been very predominant with the Dutch in America.

It appears that a number of unconcious influences may have gone into the idea of Santa to suit the citizenry of Upper Class New Yorkers of the early 19th century as they sought to reform how Christmas was generally celebrated. Santa didn't exactly emerge whole cloth out of nowhere, but was fleshed out throughout most of the 19th century. Indeed there were a number of interpretations (as there still are today), but many of the most widely accepted ideas around him were pretty much established by the 1860s.-1870s. Clement Clarke Moore pretty much cements the idea of Santa travelling by sleigh pulled by eight reindeer and arriving on Christmas Eve (although Santa had already been depicted a few years earlier travelling by sleigh but pulled by a lone reindeer). Thomas Nast some forty years later establishes the idea of Santa being based with his workshop at the North Pole and having a means to watch children from afar. His generally accepted appearance began even before Clement Clarke Moore, but is more concretely fleshed out by Thomas Nast's illustration. And that general appearance would be refined (or more accurately widely popularized) some seventy years later by Haddon Sundblom.

And throughout the 19th century he did retain some religious connections. Churches were known to use Santa as a draw to get children, youth and others into the Church around the holidays. He still retains something of a religious sensibility about him in the sense that even as he became the ideal promoter for retail business he still managed to remain rather anti-commercial and almost Christ like in some of his qualities. His (usually) red and white attire retains a connection to the red and white in the rainment of St. Nicholas just as easily as it can be seen as a connection to the red of mistletoe berries and pointsettas as well as the white of winter. Down through history people reinvent or reinterpret things to suit themselves and often don't document the reasons why they made the choices they did or what influences went into their decisions.

Part of the appeal (even beauty) of Santa is he has managed to retain some Christian like qualities even as he isn't associated with any particular denomination or sect. On the other hand because he isn't owned or trademarked by anyone he can (and has) also be used to promote all sorts of things from toys to hardware to luxury items and even alchohol, cigarettes and guns. Santa has come to embody (from rather early on) the very dichotomy of the holiday season.

While there are some who decry how the focus on Santa seems to detract from the focus on Christ it's quite apparent most people apparently have no problem with the two coexisting.

As for the Christmas Tree it, too, (like the holiday season) could have its meaning changed over time. It could conceivably come to be seen as a religious symbol or have religious overtones in decades to centuries to come. Note how many churches choose to have a Christmas Tree within. And take note of how many people display a nativity scene under their trees.


I don't think the symbol seen in the Enterprise's chapel is supposed to specifically represent a Christmas Tree, but it's not impossible that an evergreen (or Christmas Tree) could come to be seen as a significant symbol over the centuries into the future.