Reading through the threads in this forum I'm picking up on a fair bit of negativity towards the TNG-R books, in particular Resistance and Before Dishonor. My question is WHY????? I thought that were excellent!!! Sure, they weren't perfect but to be honest I've never read a book that was.
TNG RELAUNCH? WHY THE NEGATIVITY?
- Thread starter wahwahkits
- Start date
It appears your opinion is in the minority (on this board), much like mine is in the minority (on this board) regarding the VOY-R books. To each his/her own.
My overall reaction to the entire TNG-R thus far is (Uncoded Spoiler warning):
DIW: I expected too much at the time I read it, thus was disappointed in it. However stepping back and looking without the expectations it was a decent book for what it was and what it tried to accomplish. And I think it even accomplished its actual purpose (if not the one I expected) quite well.
Resistance: I didn't think this book was bad when I read it, and still don't. Now I do agree with a great many people who feel it was lacking in the Borg department and Picard jumping into Locutus again so quickly was a tad unbelievable but I liked the introduction of T'Lana and what was done with Worf.
Q&A: The events within felt too big to be in a book so small. The quickness of it seemed to lessen the consequences of it and therefore my enjoyment of it. This however was the best book of the four because KRAD did manage to make me like Q a little bit more than I do (which I'm not a Q fan at all), the continuity porn within was also pretty decent if a tad much. And KRAD's introduction of Leybenzon and Kadohata was great.
BD: While the actual process of reading it was ok, ultimately this book was, quite frankly, terrible. PAD's humor was off and felt COMPLETELY out of place on the bridge of the Enterprise and being so whimsical during such a deadly serious threat was in bad taste. Let me not get on the "mutiny" which was about 12 shades of wrong and poorly written. Then of course there's the butchering of the characterizations of Leybenzon and Kadohata and to some extent even T'Lana from the previous book. Now, move on to the "killing" of Janeway. I'm all for shaking things up and killing of main characters, but of all the ones to kill off you kill of Janeway in a TNG book and pretty nearly gloss over the loss like nothing big even happened. The whole Pluto business felt off kilter, and the Borg's actions didn't feel like they had adapted to anything they had ever learned (a complaint I've always had with the Borg but this book made worse). The one thing I did like in direct contrast to my last statement was that the Borg actually were smart enough to not completely tie that remaining ship into themselves allowing themselves to be defeated without being utterly defeated and allowing part of them to get away to survive another day.
Everyone has their own reasons, and many people elaborated on those reasons here. My reasons include the lack of editorial oversight that resulted in characters with the same names behaving like completely different people from one book to the next; too much Borg; too much stuff we've seen before (Resistance echoes too many other Borg stories, as does Before Dishonor, which also drags in PAD's previous novel Vendetta and his New Frontier characters); and my expectation that we're going to see some kind of reset button where Janeway's concerned.
Other people have their own reasons. For what it's worth, I did like Q&A.
Hmmmm. There's a few things that I agree and disagree with you there.
For me, Q & A, whilst still excellent, is the weakest of the books for me, purely down to it's ending which left me slightly dissatisfied.
As for Before Dishonor I absolutely loved it!! The Borg in this one were complete bad-asses who I suspect weren't above a little bit of showing off (eating pluto anyone!).
As for the mutiny I agree that it was not written in such a high quality as it should have been but boy, did it make me hate T'Lana, Leybenzon and Kadahota!! I would not have been as forgivivng of Picard, no way.
Another point is this thing about the new characters behaving in an inconsistent way, my question is, were they? Consider we have not known these characters for long (only one prior book) so do we don't really know them that well and so how can be behaving out of character?
For me, Q & A, whilst still excellent, is the weakest of the books for me, purely down to it's ending which left me slightly dissatisfied.
As for Before Dishonor I absolutely loved it!! The Borg in this one were complete bad-asses who I suspect weren't above a little bit of showing off (eating pluto anyone!).
As for the mutiny I agree that it was not written in such a high quality as it should have been but boy, did it make me hate T'Lana, Leybenzon and Kadahota!! I would not have been as forgivivng of Picard, no way.
Another point is this thing about the new characters behaving in an inconsistent way, my question is, were they? Consider we have not known these characters for long (only one prior book) so do we don't really know them that well and so how can be behaving out of character?
If you write a story and it has the borg "showing off" or give that impression to the readers, then you've gone wrong somewhere...
I enjoyed them all, but in Before Dishonor as others have mentioned, some things were just too whimsical in a book that deals with some of the most epic matters I've read in a Star Trek book. All the excessive references to the Borg "eating" planets, ships, etc. really drew me out.
In Q&A, KRAD did a lot of work to make those new characters feel like people with pasts and personalities and relationships. None of that was present in Before Dishonor. They became faceless enemies maneuvered around the plot to cause problems for Picard. They were not people acting out of their own motivations and their own understanding of people and events.
Glad you found it excellent, at least.
Out of curiosity, what is it about the ending that dissatisfied you?I think it was the whole higher being thing, I've never been a fan of that (or of Q for that matter) and the whole Picard laughing thing at the end... It just didn't do anything for me.Glad you found it excellent, at least.
Sorry Keith, as I've said above I thought the book was excellent overall, I loved especially the moments when all the Q were together.
Hell, I feel awful now for being negative.
It's time to pull out the old KRAD standby quote: "Don't mistake a few fans bitching on the internet for any sort of trend."
Of the four post-NEM TNG books, I liked Death in Winter, thought Resistance was mediocre, and loved Q&A and Before Dishonor. The main flaw of the "relaunch" so far is that it tried to begin a new chapter of these characters' lives while still paying tribute to the fan favorite antagonists of years past. Those goals are very difficult to reconcile.
Of the four post-NEM TNG books, I liked Death in Winter, thought Resistance was mediocre, and loved Q&A and Before Dishonor. The main flaw of the "relaunch" so far is that it tried to begin a new chapter of these characters' lives while still paying tribute to the fan favorite antagonists of years past. Those goals are very difficult to reconcile.
No need to apologize, and no need to feel awful. That's a reasonable criticism, and I have no objection to reasonable criticisms.
I'm so glad to see that line getting traction. :thumbsup:
In Q&A it's established that Leybenzon has a deep distrust of Officers, so if he feels that an officer he is serving under is not doing the correct thing I think he would act.
Also T'Lana has it in for Picard and Worf right from the begining, in so much that I think it borders on obsession so again she would act if her superiors aren't up to her expectations.
As for Kadahota, I can't think of any reason why she would mutiny BUT as i said we don't know her too well.
I know that KRAD did a superb job of establishing these characters in Q&A but we still don't know them. It takes ages to get to know someone well enough to know how they'd act in any given situation.
My beef with characterization in Before Dishonor is not so much about "Would they mutiny" but about the flatness of the new cast overall. Q & A set up various interesting character traits for Kadohata and Leybenzon, making them distinctive individuals with highly recognizable behavior. Before Dishonor ignores all that, offering stick figures who have no personality and no purpose except to be the antagonistic new crew. It doesn't matter that Q & A was one book; one book is all it takes to introduce enough detail that the one-dimensional plot markers of Before Dishonor seem wrong.
Just lost the post I was writing and can't be bothered to type it all again, so will just say this.
I liked the rest of the relaunch but PAD's writing seems to suit his own band of merry men and doesn't quite translate to the TNG crowd.
I liked the rest of the relaunch but PAD's writing seems to suit his own band of merry men and doesn't quite translate to the TNG crowd.
Glad you found it excellent, at least.
I agree that it is an excellent book, though I think it is the strongest of th recent TNG books. My only complaint was that it wasn't long enough. The climax at the 'end of the universe' seemed a little rushed to me. It would have been nice to have that last a little longer, as it was a very well written part of the book otherwise. I guess with all the build-up the end seemed to go by too quick.
Which, of course, isn't the worst criticism you can get. I've read many books that were easily twice as long as they needed to be
i'm glad i'm not the only one who doesn't get the hatred of Resistance and BD.
let's be fair here, Leybenzon and Kadohata were in an extreme situation even more than in Q&A and many people may act in a way they normally wouldn't in such exceptionally dire circumstances...
let's be fair here, Leybenzon and Kadohata were in an extreme situation even more than in Q&A and many people may act in a way they normally wouldn't in such exceptionally dire circumstances...
I haven't read any of these novels. And without sounding like an asshole, would I miss something if I only read DIW and Q&A without the other two novels? Just asking...
Since I like to go against the grain at times (I happen to be a big fan of Enterprise, not popular around here) I've liked the TNG-R novels thus far. I admit I'm a bit sick of the Borg but I also didn't think we'd seen the last of them on Endgame either. As for Q&A, the idea of a being more powerful than The Q is something that got my attention and made me want something more on them. I've always had a thing for Q & Picard, they had so many great moments together and I always get a good laugh from Q.
My only dislike of what I've read is Before Dishonor and the new crew. I would have expected them to trust Picard a bit more than they did but it was a good read. I also didn't like Pluto being an orderve but that's just me.
My only dislike of what I've read is Before Dishonor and the new crew. I would have expected them to trust Picard a bit more than they did but it was a good read. I also didn't like Pluto being an orderve but that's just me.
I'm only part way through Death in Winter, which my wife bought me for my birthday, but I'm enjoying it greatly.
That said, going by the reviews to date, I can't say I'm terribly interested in picking up the others.
That said, going by the reviews to date, I can't say I'm terribly interested in picking up the others.
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