TNG-R - Replaceing Mattes

[FreddyE]

We don´t know for sure if they will replace any mattes like they did for TOS-R, but I thought it would be interesting to do a few photoshops to get an idea what it might look like.

This is a quick and dirty photoshop of the bendi city. I removed the background using photoshops background eraser and put an image of mars underneath.

Let´s see what other users can come up with.

 

[FreddyE]

Here´s another scene from farpoint

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

It would be helpful for comparison to include the "before" picture as well as the "after" one.

 

[FreddyE]

I added the original images...for some reason they don´t appear in the same size as my photoshop images...although I tried resizing them while posting.

 

[You_Will_Fail]

I think trying to add them in and make them look natural would be more bother than its worth.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Now I can see the comparison, they do look like an improvement - especially the first one -although the Bandi city council do appear to be way behind on their road maintenance program. However, to anyone familiar with the photos from the Mars rovers, the source would be immediately apparent. Some tweaking of the colours to make them a bit warmer might also help.

 

[Trek Survivor]

These look good - hope TNG-R has at least some of this going on. "Hide And Q" desperately needs it to get over the crappy set they used.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

You made a mistake with the second one, I can still see Wesley.

 

[Start Wreck]

Not to be picky or anything (oh, go on then!) but neither of those shots are mattes. The first one's a miniature and the second is a set.

 

[Flake]

I don't think they will do this. If they where stood infront of a bluescreen then it would be very easy but they would have to rotoscope (?) everyone in every shot which would take ages. We are going to have to make-do with the poor Season 1 & 2 soundstages I think

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Does anyone honestly think that applying the pretty stick to the backgrounds or the FX will overcome the poor quality of some of the first and second season scripts?

 

[Christopher]

Not to be picky or anything (oh, go on then!) but neither of those shots are mattes. The first one's a miniature and the second is a set.

Yes. Which means, in both cases, that there'd be no problem rendering them in HD, and no need to replace or modify them. This isn't a George Lucas exercise where the goal is to alter things for the sake of making them look cooler. The issue is that the original FX shots are too low-resolution to work in HD, and thus need to be recomposited or replaced. And the advantage with TNG-R is that they still have the original, individual film elements that were composited into the FX shots and thus simply need to recomposite them at higher resolution (although pure-video elements like FX animation -- phaser beams and energy fields and such -- would need to be redone from scratch).

But if something is just a single, pure film image, like a shot of a tabletop miniature or a shot with actors on a set, then the original film master already has high enough resolution for HD and doesn't need to be altered at all.

 

[JJohnson]

Does anyone honestly think that applying the pretty stick to the backgrounds or the FX will overcome the poor quality of some of the first and second season scripts?

Nope. But at least the CG effects on Spock's Brain look better now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sgxebe9IAz4

And on the comparison between the old and new Space Seed, the motion of the ships is, in my opinion, much improved: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WGhvS2LGTM&feature=related - this is one of the things I am eager to see done in TNG-R, having the relatively planar and lethargic models actually move a bit more realistically with some CG help.

 

[AviTrek]

Technically the mattes are high enough resolution too. In fact, all of TOS was high enough resolution yet they decided to redo all the space shots and mattes. We know TNG will be keeping the model work. But we have no word on the mattes either way. Personally I hope some of the real mattes are redone, but not the random edits presented in the two shots above.

 

[JJohnson]

Not to be picky or anything (oh, go on then!) but neither of those shots are mattes. The first one's a miniature and the second is a set.

Yes. Which means, in both cases, that there'd be no problem rendering them in HD, and no need to replace or modify them. This isn't a George Lucas exercise where the goal is to alter things for the sake of making them look cooler. The issue is that the original FX shots are too low-resolution to work in HD, and thus need to be recomposited or replaced. And the advantage with TNG-R is that they still have the original, individual film elements that were composited into the FX shots and thus simply need to recomposite them at higher resolution (although pure-video elements like FX animation -- phaser beams and energy fields and such -- would need to be redone from scratch).

But if something is just a single, pure film image, like a shot of a tabletop miniature or a shot with actors on a set, then the original film master already has high enough resolution for HD and doesn't need to be altered at all.

If it's a tabletop miniature, I'd say go ahead and replace it with a livened CG version. I don't know if they did tabletop miniatures in TOS-R, but I know the lithium cracking station, the Vorta underground station, Starbase 11, and the Scalosian City (matte paintings I think) all looked so much better remastered.

 

[Flake]

Does anyone honestly think that applying the pretty stick to the backgrounds or the FX will overcome the poor quality of some of the first and second season scripts?

I used to feel this way about Seasons 1 & 2, they sucked. When I was buying the DVDs I even skipped 1&2 and bought the rest!

Recently though I have found the later seasons (5,6,7) to be particularly bland when compared to seasons 1 & 2. I would much prefer to see a decent S1/2 episode compared with something from 5/6 & 7 nowadays.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

We've all seen that one matte shot that showed up as a cityscape for like six or seven different alien worlds (Angel One was its first appearance, AFAIK). Don't tell me they shouldn't at least try to replace something like THAT?

 

[Start Wreck]

What were those mattes painted on*, and how big were they? They might not hold up in HD, in which case, they'd paint new digital mattes like they did for TOS-R. If they do that, they'll probably change a few of them, including (I hope) the Angel One stock shots.

But, then again, they might look perfectly fine in HD and they'll just rescan the film and change nothing.


* I'm assuming some of them must have been on a transparent surface in order for the 'layering' effects to work.

 

[Trek Survivor]

Yes. Which means, in both cases, that there'd be no problem rendering them in HD, and no need to replace or modify them. This isn't a George Lucas exercise where the goal is to alter things for the sake of making them look cooler.

Well, I'm not sure if any "stated goal" has clearly been given by the creators. I think people expect "something" different because of how TOS was handled. Remember, that was all on film and could've been transferred (indeed, was as well) "as is".

I agree with you, I'd feel very uncomfortable if we strayed into Lucas territory with any modifications. But I don't think I would object to SOME changes; after all, they're going to need to redo lots of the FX anyway; if there is a way to improve SOME of the backgrounds (I find "Hide And Q", as I mentioned above, probably the worst offender) I would not object.

But I don't want Bynars inserted into the background of random shots, or "Yuta shooting first" at Riker etc etc.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

What were those mattes painted on*, and how big were they? They might not hold up in HD, in which case, they'd paint new digital mattes like they did for TOS-R. If they do that, they'll probably change a few of them, including (I hope) the Angel One stock shots.

But, then again, they might look perfectly fine in HD and they'll just rescan the film and change nothing.


* I'm assuming some of them must have been on a transparent surface in order for the 'layering' effects to work.

Even if they do hold up in HD, I say replace them anyway. It makes no sense to have the exact same cityscape represent all those completely different worlds. They only did it back then because they HAD to. This is a perfect example of something they should change simply because they can.