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TNG as three seasons

Lance Warren Baylis

Lieutenant
Red Shirt
Hi, old user posting here under a new account (I forgot my old password and can't reactivate the email account I had 10 years ago to change the password, so here I am )

I've been pondering this possibility recently as I've collected the Star Trek TNG DVD collection cheaply and, as it is not seperated into seasons, it conveniently features a kind of 'closed finale' on Disc 25, which ends with Best of Both Worlds Part 2.

In effect, it got me to wondering, what if that was it. What if those 25 discs featuring 74 episodes were, like TOS before it, the entire run of The Next Generation? Basically, what if the remaining DVDs were consigned to oblivion, and those 25 discs were everything we got?

I wonder how the show would have been percieved. Not necessarily in terms of just it's legacy, but as a show in its own right. TOS only lasted three seasons and 79 episodes but those 79 are held up as signature TV. Would TNG be similarly fawned? Would Seasons 1 and 2, retrospectively, be assessed very differently if they comprised a whole two thirds of TNG's entire run? (I'm a big fan of those first two seasons so I admit I wouldn't see this as a bad thing ).

The other factor that I wondered about was the finale. BOBW (particularly including the second part so that it isn't a cliffhanger) actually feels like a finale in a lot of ways. As a two part/movie length one could argue it works as a compliment to Encounter At Farpoint, exploring how far the Riker character has come in three years from brash fast tracker to comfortable senior officer. A factor not often acknowledged is that Riker's fate is never explicitly spelled out in the final scenes. He finishes the episode declaring he's made a decision about his future, but doesn't declare overtly what that descion is, and the last time we see him walking out of Picard's ready room he's *still wearing Captain's pips*. If this was a finale, that could have been anything. It's open ended enough to intrigue but also specific enough to satisfy. The entire show would then end with Picard alone, looking out of his window, a kind of dark mirror of the very first shot in Encounter At Farpoint, the optimistic Picard there replaced by a man who has become, thanks to the Borg (and by extension Q for introducing them), a much more cynical man.

To further hypothesize, consider that TOS was revived on movie screens 10 years after its run ended. What if TNG left airwaves in 1990, only to reappear on movie screens in say 1996 with First Contact. Swap out Worf as Defiant commander with Riker and the story barely misses a beat coming after the two part BOBW 'finale', almost seamlessly continuing the story.

Yes, this thread is particularly hypothetical by nature But what say you, TrekBBSers?
 
Even though I'm not a fan of ENT, it's remembered by its fans as a show that was cut-off in its prime when it was getting good. I think if TNG ended after three seasons plus "The Best of Both Worlds, Part II", it would be regarded the same way.

Except "The Best of Both Worlds" does provide closure, especially the way it's described here. So maybe it's actually the conclusion of Early-TNG, not "Shades of Grey". Then the stretch from "Family" to "Final Mission" is an in-between period dealing with family and sending off Wesley.

Then "The Loss", which starts off 1991, begins Latter-TNG. The next episode, "Data's Day", makes O'Brien more of a character than he was before, including with a wife and sub-plots. The episode after that, "The Wounded", introduces The Cardassians. So, for the show, it's another era.

But, if you wanted to, you could go straight from Early-TNG to FC and it would be like going from TOS to TMP.
 
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Hi, old user posting here under a new account (I forgot my old password and can't reactivate the email account I had 10 years ago to change the password, so here I am )
What was your old username? There is an admin tool that flags possible duals and it might flag you. I can watch for it and clear the alert.
 
Season 1 & 2 is a different show from season 4-5 with season 3 as a transition between those two blocs.

It's why I quite like season 3, it's got that wonder-music but is tidier than the first two seasons. Whereas after seasons 3 we tended to get more sedate and became a bit more "conference table" trek.

I'd say "4 to 5" because the show is a bit different then again to season "6 - 7", IMHO.

Anyhow, I think it'd be well remembered. I don't know if studio politics would be fertile for a further spin-off or what kind of spin-off it would be. Hard to know that.
 
If you wish, you can create your own 3 season TNG by selecting all your favorites from seven season.

3 seasons x 26 episodes. 3 times 26, that's... um... let me get my calculator...

:lol: I've often wondered if it might be possible to do that with Voyager... create a kind of optimal, perfect season by separating the wheat from all the chaff. ;)

What was your old username? There is an admin tool that flags possible duals and it might flag you. I can watch for it and clear the alert.

:) My old username was simply Lance. Alas I've forgotten my old password and can't access the email I used to register.
 
I will *only* rewatch Season 1 thru 3, so I actually really like this idea. Skipping the terrible Generations and skipping right from BobW to FC is actually pretty perfect.

Someone should definitely make a "story arc / mythology" list for Voyager. Its the only way I'll ever complete the show. :P
 
I think the way first-run syndication worked back then was that shows were renewed or cancelled after May sweeps, so TNG could have ended on the BOBW part 1 cliffhanger if it was canceled or it could have had a planned ending if was a deliberate choice to end after three seasons (maybe BOBW parts 1 & 2 could have been the final two episodes). If TNG had gone the latter route, it definitely would have been interesting, but it probably would have returned for the big screen in 1992 or 1993, IMO.
 
I'm glad TNG run for more than 3 seasons, seasons 3 and 4 are my favorites and there is some awesome stuff in the later seasons too.
 
TNG usually doesn't fall too far behind TOS on 'Best shows' lists people put out.

The difference between TOS and TNG is that TOS was on a downswing in its third season and TNG was on an upswing. If we cut out seasons 4-7 we are cutting out a pretty high percentage of the best episodes. If TNG were only seasons 3-5, maybe it'd increase the perception of the show, but not if it's seasons 1-3.
 
Season 1 & 2 is a different show from season 4-5 with season 3 as a transition between those two blocs.

It's why I quite like season 3, it's got that wonder-music but is tidier than the first two seasons. Whereas after seasons 3 we tended to get more sedate and became a bit more "conference table" trek.

I'd say "4 to 5" because the show is a bit different then again to season "6 - 7", IMHO.

Anyhow, I think it'd be well remembered. I don't know if studio politics would be fertile for a further spin-off or what kind of spin-off it would be. Hard to know that.

I'll wholeheartedly agree. Though season 2 does feel like its own transition between 1's and 3's styles; early-mid season 1 feels the most radically different (and not always that great).

4-7 do become more "conference table" Trek, with 5 and 6 having the least effective (if not outright worst) of the bunch.

Season 7 tries to go back into sci-fi territory, with mixed results...

I prefer seasons 1-3's music in most cases; Ron Jones' music managed to help lift up the show in its most dire episodes. As usual, I nod toward "DataLore" as the perfect example - a premise with potential, it's let down rather badly by what comes across as a first draft packed with poor characterization and Data making a zillion contractions as opposed to the zero he's not supposed to be using. Take away the incidental music and the episode becomes 5x more cringe inducing. Replace Jones' cinematic score with a typical season five "frog farting fest" and it becomes 500x more cringe inducing.

Having said that, I agree with Berman as to why "Booby Trap"'s climax got replaced - it was a treat to hear the original, which is good - yes, but it really doesn't fit the scene for the needed level of suspense and tension. Reusing the piece from "Where Silence Has Lease" was not the wrong thing to do and it fits the scene surprisingly well.

And TNG seasons 5-7 desperately needed Jones back for a number of episodes, even the action ones that worked despite the incidental music dragging episodes down (Power Play, The Next Phase, etc. Even The Pegasus, which had some good music overall, would have felt fully cinematic with him composing it.) And I don't blame anything on the composers, since they had worked on TNG 1-3 and put in a memorable style as well, and in DS9 - especially the mid-to-later years, they found a new style that really did much justice. It's not as much "blame" anyway, the showrunners wanted a different style and the composers did what was asked...
 
I'll wholeheartedly agree. Though season 2 does feel like its own transition between 1's and 3's styles; early-mid season 1 feels the most radically different (and not always that great).

4-7 do become more "conference table" Trek, with 5 and 6 having the least effective (if not outright worst) of the bunch.

Season 7 tries to go back into sci-fi territory, with mixed results...

I prefer seasons 1-3's music in most cases; Ron Jones' music managed to help lift up the show in its most dire episodes. As usual, I nod toward "DataLore" as the perfect example - a premise with potential, it's let down rather badly by what comes across as a first draft packed with poor characterization and Data making a zillion contractions as opposed to the zero he's not supposed to be using. Take away the incidental music and the episode becomes 5x more cringe inducing. Replace Jones' cinematic score with a typical season five "frog farting fest" and it becomes 500x more cringe inducing.

Having said that, I agree with Berman as to why "Booby Trap"'s climax got replaced - it was a treat to hear the original, which is good - yes, but it really doesn't fit the scene for the needed level of suspense and tension. Reusing the piece from "Where Silence Has Lease" was not the wrong thing to do and it fits the scene surprisingly well.

And TNG seasons 5-7 desperately needed Jones back for a number of episodes, even the action ones that worked despite the incidental music dragging episodes down (Power Play, The Next Phase, etc. Even The Pegasus, which had some good music overall, would have felt fully cinematic with him composing it.) And I don't blame anything on the composers, since they had worked on TNG 1-3 and put in a memorable style as well, and in DS9 - especially the mid-to-later years, they found a new style that really did much justice. It's not as much "blame" anyway, the showrunners wanted a different style and the composers did what was asked...

Don't get me started on the music..Firing Ron Jones in season 4 of TNG after all his brilliant scores (I enjoy listening to his music while driving) was Rick Berman's unforgivable sin. Jay Chattaway's scores became unbearably dreary by season 6 of TNG and Dennis Mcarthy's music became musical wallpaper, although I remember liking a few of his late TNG/early DS9 work. Music adds so much; part of the reason why late TNG's action scenes felt unexciting was because the music sucked. Imagine Starship Mine with Ron Jones....

Fortunately by the third season of DS9 new composers were coming in and Chattaway and McCarthy were able to add a little warmth back in their scores.
 
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Don't get me started on the music..Firing Ron Jones in season 4 of TNG after all his brilliant scores (I enjoy listening to his music while driving) was Rick Berman's unforgivable sin. Jay Chattaway's scores became unbearably dreary by season 6 of TNG and Dennis Mcarthy's music became musical wallpaper, although I remember liking a few of his late TNG/early DS9 work. Music adds so much; part of the reason why late TNG's action scenes felt unexciting was because the music sucked. Imagine Starship Mine with Ron Jones....

Fortunately by the third season of DS9 new composers were coming in and Chattaway and McCarthy were able to add a little warmth back in their scores.
If you turn the sound off and put the captioning on, the music can't bother you at all!:biggrin:
 
I like good music, but I'm surprised that in some posts music in TNG gets so much critique.

After all, at least I think it's quite a small part of the whole experience, if some episode has weak music, it doesn't bother me.
Which is weird in the way that when it comes to music I listen, I am very, very picky.
 
Hi, old user posting here under a new account (I forgot my old password and can't reactivate the email account I had 10 years ago to change the password, so here I am )

I've been pondering this possibility recently as I've collected the Star Trek TNG DVD collection cheaply and, as it is not seperated into seasons, it conveniently features a kind of 'closed finale' on Disc 25, which ends with Best of Both Worlds Part 2.

In effect, it got me to wondering, what if that was it. What if those 25 discs featuring 74 episodes were, like TOS before it, the entire run of The Next Generation? Basically, what if the remaining DVDs were consigned to oblivion, and those 25 discs were everything we got?

I wonder how the show would have been percieved. Not necessarily in terms of just it's legacy, but as a show in its own right. TOS only lasted three seasons and 79 episodes but those 79 are held up as signature TV. Would TNG be similarly fawned? Would Seasons 1 and 2, retrospectively, be assessed very differently if they comprised a whole two thirds of TNG's entire run? (I'm a big fan of those first two seasons so I admit I wouldn't see this as a bad thing ).

I think TNG's first two seasons were magical, although some stories were remade from TOS, but the elements of who the main characters are were there. And despite some who think there were changes from season 3 and beyond; none of them are as great of television than "The Measure of a Man," the first appearance of Q in the pilot episode, introducing Guinan, and the scariest space zombies in SF history... which were later ruined on VOY.

I thought season 3 was a step down in storytelling, catering too heavily on going back into the old well with the Klingons which developed Worf's character tremendously and the Romulans. Gates McFadden returned but she was just as useless as Troi; she started shining after Wesley left the show. Sorry, I'm not that into being fooled on the cosmetic changes and believing the series got better.

TNG was getting blow back from TOS cast and felt their times were numbered if the series caught steam. If their run ended shortly, it would be looked at like DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise a short-lived cult show general audiences barely remembers, which never was as good as the original.

TNG opened the doors to a vast entity of SF series TV after it's third season, if the series ended I doubt syndicated markets would've ordered more of the like. That means no Friday the 13th, or Hercules and Xena (This also means DC comics would've never created that stupid Wonder Woman movie which had Xena in it.) No SeaQuest, no Andromeda, Small Wonder, the incredible Farscape, Mission Genesis and others.

Not to mention if TNG ended it would be in the path of the awful ST:V which was by far the worst Trek film at the time. With a combination of these things, along with Roddenberry's failing health, Star Trek would've been officially dead.
 
I like good music, but I'm surprised that in some posts music in TNG gets so much critique.

After all, at least I think it's quite a small part of the whole experience, if some episode has weak music, it doesn't bother me.
Which is weird in the way that when it comes to music I listen, I am very, very picky.

I guess its me thinking how much better an episode would be if it had exciting and emotional music, which we had in the first four seasons of TNG. I can't imagine "Conspiracy", "Q Who", "Yesterday's Enterprise", "The Offspring", "The Best of Both Worlds", or "The Nth Degree" without the music that gave those episodes such heart and soul,
or atleast a deeper emotional resonance.

Certain kinds of scenes, action scenes, really depend on music, moments where there is a sharp increase of dramatic tension really come to life when the music is intentionally designed to bring that to focus for the audience. There are subtleties of emotion and mood that only music can express.

I actually thought the music from later seasons of TNG, much of which seemed so dreary and emotionally unfocused, downplayed the excitement and tension and action. An episode like "Starship Mine" needs intentionally suspenseful and rousing music or there is no point. It's utterly forgettable whereas the opening of "Brothers" where Data commandeers The Enterprise is one of the most exciting scenes of all time.

But I agree that music is only a part of what makes a piece of filmaking good and I think episodes of Trek that aren't full of action or dramatic shifts in tension aren't as dependent on the music.
 
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What if those 25 discs featuring 74 episodes were, like TOS before it, the entire run of The Next Generation? Basically, what if the remaining DVDs were consigned to oblivion, and those 25 discs were everything we got?

I wonder how the show would have been percieved. Not necessarily in terms of just it's legacy, but as a show in its own right. TOS only lasted three seasons and 79 episodes but those 79 are held up as signature TV. Would TNG be similarly fawned?

I don't think so, it would be considered just a not-quite embarrassing, very hit or miss, but still a very lesser, even close to embarrassing, spinoff that could have been good, had good elements but didn't get them right often enough. But the relatively few fans would (yes much like with Enterprise) argue it was never that bad and was getting a lot better - and that alternate finale would be considered both bold and pretty great (although some would also think it was a little too grim and open-ended).

To further hypothesize, consider that TOS was revived on movie screens 10 years after its run ended. What if TNG left airwaves in 1990, only to reappear on movie screens in say 1996 with First Contact. Swap out Worf as Defiant commander with Riker and the story barely misses a beat coming after the two part BOBW 'finale', almost seamlessly continuing the story.

It's hard to see how that would happen as just three years would indicate general disinterest/commercial failure, if the film had been made it would at least be a lot lower budget version, but it would still be pretty popular as a good revival and character story and, had that been its context, people may have been more open to the action-focus of it and further films.
 
I think it would be like Enterprise. Sure, it picked up a lot in the final season, but I still wish that show never existed and haven't watched a single episode of it since.

I think I'm more forgiving of how bad TNG's first two seasons were because I have fond memories of the characters thanks to the later seasons.

You would also be losing a lot of signature episodes that were viewed in high regard with both fans and critics, most notably "The Inner Light".
 
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