TMP: Scene-by-Scene

[Lord Garth]

Why don't we just look at the entire movie scene-by-scene and examine one after another? Which scenes were necessary to keep and which could've been cut without any difference. Simultaneously, which were too long (and what could've been cut from them if they were), and which were fine at the length they were.

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The Overture, I think, sets up people for what type of movie they can expect: a slow pace, a thoughtful pace, and wondering what's out there.

In the original cut, this is more of a mood setting. The idea of being Out There is captured better in the DE with the starfield.

TOS was about the Enterprise exploring what was out there "thattaway" and, in a way, TMP inverts this and shows V'Ger exploring what was out there, until it learned all it could and wanted to return home.

When Kirk regains command of the Enterprise, they're going back Out There and intercept V'Ger which is returning from Out There.

 

[BillJ]

Next would be the scene where V'Ger digitizes the three Klingon vessels. There isn't a thing I would change about it... it is absolutely perfect. The music here really does a good job of conveying that the Klingons are a menace. Then we see V'Ger make quick work of them.

 

[Lord Garth]

^ In turn, V'Ger making short work of the Klingons put V'Ger on a different scale. When Epsilon IX is observing this incident, it allows for us to know that Starfleet has become aware of the situation.

The heading of Earth is significant not only because V'Ger is going after a planet we care about but because 23rd Century Earth never figured into TOS plot. With Earth itself at risk, the stakes along with the enemy are both on a different scale from the series.

V'Ger going after the Klingon ships one-by-one allows for this to sink before proceeding to Vulcan.

Spock wants to shed all emotion but when V'Ger calls out to him and his human nature interferes with his achievement of Kholinar with his human half being seen by the Vulcans as a deficiency (as in ST XI). Feeling the call to V'Ger sets up Spock having to reintergrate with humanity, through the Enterprise. The Vulcan Priestess says his answers lie elsewhere and his answer will be to face his human-half instead of ignoring it, like he seeks to do with Kholinar.

This scene makes more sense in showing what Spock was doing after the five-year mission and V'Ger is intended as Spock's rationale for returning to the Enterprise.

My question is: what does Spock needing to reconsile himself have to do with V'Ger seeking The Creator?

 

[Maurice]

The original overture was much shorter than on the DE. As much as I love the piece of music, I didn't think it was necessary to extend it on the DE. Adding the starfield was a mistake, in my opinion, because then it has the exact same background as the titles.

The Klingon sequence is mostly fine, but the endless establishing shots of Epsilon Nine rob the momentum from the Klingon sequence.

As to Lord Garth's Q about Spock: Spock is seeking to purge his emotions once and for all, and can't, but he senses this being of perfect logic and is drawn to it. But the joke's on him because perfect logic is revealed to him to be barren and meaningless, so he's forced to realize his whole life has been in pursuit of something that ultimately wasn't his answer. What this has to do with V'ger is the central theme of the characters needing to find their place and their own answers.

 

[Lord Garth]

Between this and other threads, it seems like the consensus is the Klingon scene was a winner. It was the part that stuck with me the most when I first saw TMP. Visually, dramatically, and musically the Klingon material was perfect. The atmosphere was great.

Next scene up: Starfleet, San Francisco, Earth

This the frist time in Star Trek there's ever a scene on 23rd Century Earth. Beyond that trivia, the audience gets to see world V'Ger is after. From what little is shown, there are still similarities to 20th Century Earth but the interior of Starfleet Command has futuristic qualities.

Enter Kirk who meets up with Spock's replacement Sonak. We find out Kirk's an admiral and that he wants to get the Enterprise back.

All of these are components I deem as necessary to setting up TMP. The momentum and excitment hasn't bogged down in a serious manner yet. We'll get to that point eventually but not here.

 

[TigerOfDarkness]

The original overture was much shorter than on the DE. As much as I love the piece of music, I didn't think it was necessary to extend it on the DE. Adding the starfield was a mistake, in my opinion, because then it has the exact same background as the titles.

Personally, I think the overture was a bad idea, and I would have cut it completely. When I first saw it in '79, some people didn't even realise the film had started....

The addition of the starfield suggests to me that it could be ment to be a portion of V'Ger's journey - maybe it could actually show the cloud? The fact the star field animation obviously restarts at least once also looks sloppy, IMHO.

 

[QuasarVM]

Are you guys going to do a frame-by-frame discussion as well?

:-)

 

[Lord Garth]

TMP: Mise en scene

 

[TigerOfDarkness]

Why don't we just look at the entire movie scene-by-scene and examine one after another? Which scenes were necessary to keep and which could've been cut without any difference. Simultaneously, which were too long (and what could've been cut from them if they were), and which were fine at the length they were.

Shouldn't we decide what the story is, what we want to emphasise and what we want to loose (if anything) and then start work, instead of starting at the start and working forward?

 

[Lord Garth]

^ Go ahead.

 

[Maurice]

Shouldn't we decide what the story is, what we want to emphasise and what we want to loose (if anything) and then start work, instead of starting at the start and working forward?

What parts of TMP do you want to loosen?

 

[TigerOfDarkness]

Aha - my spelling has let me down again.....

^ Go ahead.

OK for a start - the ending is pretty much fixed - Decker merges with the Ilia Probe/V'Ger and states that he wants to do that as much as Kirk wanted the Enterprise.

In order for that to not "appear out of nowhere", we need to establish the Decker/Ilia romance.

BUT - Do we also want the Deltan stuff - the "oath of celibacy"? Do we want to put back the bits where Sulu is distracted? Do we want to keep the "I can stop his pain" stuff with Chekov?