Time travel problem?

[Ryan8bit]

Sorry if this has been asked already, but I haven't seen it.

If Nero travels back in time to 2233 and splits off a tangent universe, how is it that Spock, traveling back into his own past 2258, would end up in Nero's tangent universe? If the theory is one of multiple world lines, it doesn't make sense. (Not that the science of this movie really added up, which is kind of disappointing considering that they did have a science adviser.)

 

[Small White Car]

Well, the both entered the same anomaly.

One presumes that Nero exited and destroyed the Kelvin creating an alternate universe which both Nero and the anomaly were now a part of.

So the anomaly flips over to the alternate universe. 25 years later, it spits Spock out, who it's been holding onto all that time.

 

[darkshadow0001]

Sorry if this has been asked already, but I haven't seen it.

If Nero travels back in time to 2233 and splits off a tangent universe, how is it that Spock, traveling back into his own past 2258, would end up in Nero's tangent universe? If the theory is one of multiple world lines, it doesn't make sense. (Not that the science of this movie really added up, which is kind of disappointing considering that they did have a science adviser.)

They both entered the same anomely. Spock pointed this out in the film.

 

[npsf3000]

PLEASE STOP USING THE TERM ALTERNATE UNIVERSE!


Sorry...

An Alternate universe is a serperate universe altogether - its different from changing time itself.

Best guess is that time would spilt, it gives the best explanation- the old universe exists, and the new time-line does too.

 

[Dar70]

PLEASE STOP USING THE TERM ALTERNATE UNIVERSE!


Sorry...

An Alternate universe is a serperate universe altogether - its different from changing time itself.

Best guess is that time would spilt, it gives the best explanation- the old universe exists, and the new time-line does too.

What should it be called than??

 

[Basil]

PLEASE STOP USING THE TERM ALTERNATE UNIVERSE!


Sorry...

An Alternate universe is a serperate universe altogether - its different from changing time itself.

Best guess is that time would spilt, it gives the best explanation- the old universe exists, and the new time-line does too.

So, how is that different than another timeline universe where the events are now different than in the other one, which still exists?

 

[nx1701g]

PLEASE STOP USING THE TERM ALTERNATE UNIVERSE!


Sorry...

An Alternate universe is a serperate universe altogether - its different from changing time itself.

Best guess is that time would spilt, it gives the best explanation- the old universe exists, and the new time-line does too.

But they didn't change time itself. The events of the original universe still happened, the events of the new universe also happened. Its the same time approach that the Terminator series has been going with: two timelines working side by side but not intersecting.

 

[USS Excelsior]

Parallel Universe.

 

[Soar_Dude]

Divergent timeline based on a temporal incursion

 

[USS Excelsior]

Maybe that alternate timeline always existed all along and Spock and Nero going back and what happened after that was predetermined all along in this other timeline.

 

[USS Gettysburg]

Parallel Universe.

Yea, I'm gonna go with being closest to something like String Theory Multiverse (parallel). As close as science fiction can.

I don't have a problem with Spock and the planet not being effected by the black hole because he is well out of the event horizon (It's a pretty small black hole), which we can some how see (black holes are kinda invisible except for the matter that enters them), which makes no sense as does the fact that he can see the planet collapse (because anything you see approaching the event horizon never enters it from our vantage point so you couldn't actually watch it happen that quick). Of course then the question is what the heck is that other planet doing that close. All of that of course is sci fi so who the hell cares.

The part that makes the least scientific sense is the black hole, singularity, whatever the heck it is collapses on itself and disappears. That makes absolutely no sense. But hey, it certainly isn't the first time we've seen artificially created singularities appear and disappear in Star Trek. Just thank goodness there was no talk about chronoton particles.

The funny part is they seem to be describing this more like a wormhole and the ships are coming out on the white hole side. Which if that is the case poor time/space that got the tail end of the supernova when it popped out of its own wormhole. Thanks so much Alpha quadrant, NIMBY!

 

[Dar70]

I dont think the producers really know which it is. Alternate, Altered, Parallel etc.

 

[Brent]

Cause it doesn't matter. I'm going with what was said onscreen in the movie, another reality.

 

[TrekGuide.com]

PLEASE STOP USING THE TERM ALTERNATE UNIVERSE!

An Alternate universe is a serperate universe altogether - its different from changing time itself.

Yes, in Trek terms, an "Alternate Universe" was what the guys on DS9 called the Mirror Universe -- a different reality that had nothing to do with time travel.

I guess the same name could be given to Species 8472's "Fluidic Universe" on "Voyager" (unless you want to call that an "alternate dimension").

A "Parallel Universe" was another variation of this, as seen in TNG's "Parallels," where variant histories all co-exist due do natural "quantum-branching" or some such sci-fi explanation.

Time travel back in time and changing history would result in an "alternate timeline," or "divergent timeline," as seen in TNG's "Yesterday's Enterprise," Voyager's "Endgame," "Star Trek Generations," and now in "Star Trek XI."

 

[Odo's_Bucket]

If Nero and Spock traveled into the past to change history, then time cannot move forward in a manner consistent with the original history. Therefore, neither Nero nor Spock would be inclined to travel into the past, which would in turn restore the original time line, since no changes were made. The restoration of the original time line would allow time to move forward in such a manner that gives Nero and Spock their original reasons for traveling into the past. They then would change history. This creates a loop, or as Doc. Brown said it best, "a time paradox, the results of which could cause a chain reaction that would unravel the very fabric of the space time continuum, and destroy the entire universe! Granted, that's a worse case scenario. The destruction might in fact be very localized, limited to merely our own galaxy.".

 

[Ryan8bit]

PLEASE STOP USING THE TERM ALTERNATE UNIVERSE!


Sorry...

An Alternate universe is a serperate universe altogether - its different from changing time itself.

Well, it is what the characters called it in the movie, and what producers called it before the movie came out.

"Alternate" doesn't necessarily have to imply "parallel." In this case, I am using it as a form of branching, since this is what the movie both says and implies.

Now, semantics aside:

Well, the both entered the same anomaly.

One presumes that Nero exited and destroyed the Kelvin creating an alternate universe which both Nero and the anomaly were now a part of.

So the anomaly flips over to the alternate universe. 25 years later, it spits Spock out, who it's been holding onto all that time.

This doesn't make any sense. They didn't both enter at the same time, and there is nothing about a black hole that would cause the future Spock to be snapped into another future. But that's kind of meaningless since the writers clearly have no idea what a black hole even is.

 

[Vader47000]

I also wondered why Spock didn't end up in his own universe's 2258.

I concluded that Nero went through the anomaly first, thus causing the timeline to skew. Then Spock entered the Nero-verse, as opposed to the true Trek universe.

If it helps, think of the black hole as a rift into a parallel reality, rather than the true timeline. Then at least the writers don't have to honor any continuity.

What bugs me more is that as soon as Nero emerges in 2233, he finds the Kelvin, and begins looking for Spock. I think he acclimates too quickly to the situation. And if he entered the rift first, can he really have a reasonable expectation that Spock also was thrown back in time. And if so, how does Nero know when and where Spock will show up? He's just a simple miner, right?

Everyone keeps saying the film is watchable, not complicated by past Trek history, etc., but the explanation to skew the timeline is probably a more complicated story point than any movie or show drawing on normal Trek history. It's just in this case the focus is more on the characters in the alternate reality, when the movie really wants to be about the duel between Nero and Spock.

For that reason they probably should have just done a straight reimagining and left well enough alone.

 

[TrekGuide.com]

The black hole is like a continuous doorway linking the two timelines.

It doesn't matter when someone enters the black hole, they always come out in the same timeline on the other side.

Sometime later, Picard and the Enterprise-E could enter the black hole and wind up in the future of that same timeline, years after Vulcan was destroyed. The gateway between the two timelines will exist as long as the black hole exists. There's no reason to believe that it closed after Spock went through.

It's like a doorway from the dining room into the kitchen. It doesn't matter WHEN you leave the dining room. The door always leads to the same kitchen.

 

[Ryan8bit]

The black hole is like a continuous doorway linking the two timelines.

No it's not. It's not a form of parallel gateway like to the mirror universe. A separate, different universe would not exist if not for Nero's interference. And since that interference spawned a divergent timeline, Spock should have technically not even been able to go to it unless he went back at the same time or before.

Face it, they just made a mistake in this matter. You can try and make rationalizations for it, but then you realize that they simply don't even understand what a black hole is. If they can't even get that right, it's no surprise that anything else having to do with the science and logic is totally iffy.

 

[urbandk]

Yes, time travel is a problem.