Time Squared, your thoughts

[RAMA]

I was curious how many people here prefer to think that Q engineered the little drama from this episode. Maurice Hurley, one of the producers from the first 2 seasons, was overruled when he insisted that Q be the source of the "experiment" as an intro to "Q Who". Do you think that makes the episode better, or worse??

RAMA

 

[Forbin]

Nothing can save it. It was a crap idea, cappily executed. High on the list of pointlessness among many pointless episodes.

 

[RAMA]

Nothing can save it. It was a crap idea, cappily executed. High on the list of pointlessness among many pointless episodes.

I disagree completely. There was a lot going on in that episode, and it really does take repeated vieweing to see it. First of all, basic character development....something needed from season one to season two. It starts off with the teaser and Riker's cooking scene and extends into the Picard storyline. We have a slightly different time travel paradox....rarely before this on any SF had we seen a 6 hr time difference effecting the characters. Adding to the tense mystery, we finally see what is supposed to happen to the Enterprise, total destruction. Here's where the episode really takes off, Picard starts to question his own decisions and attitudes. He starts being manipulated by the unknown "entity" but he follows his own instincts anyway. Both Picards head for the shuttlebay, Picard must make a tough decision, he doesn't know the answer to the riddle but he must to something to save the ship...knowing the other Picard is something he doesn't want to become, he has to kill him! Its a great scene. Whatever Q or the entity wanted to know exactly, I'm not sure....but if it was Q, I bet he was testing to see what Picard's command decisions would be based on the unknown--hence the connection with the following episode. Rarely have we seen Picard as out of control and driven as this episode. If it was not Q? Maybe the entity was trying to find out how far Picard was willing to take possible destruction. Stewart was great in this episode. I think it really solidified him as being a great commander. In it own way, this episode makes a good comparison with "Enemey Within" from TOS and its just as good. I recall there were a lot of critics over the years suggesting TOS was too neatly wrapped up after a 45 min episode. I actually liked the uncertainty of the ending in Time Squared for STNG.

RAMA

 

[Pensive]

I disliked this ep very strongly. I enjoyed the opening scene with Riker cooking because I thought, "hey finally some character development." But Riker made some silly, erroneous conclusions of logic--which Picard tragically heeded. The ship was in danger and Picard's ridiculous sense of curiosity (encouraged by Riker's shaky "you can't change the future" crap) overruled gut instinct to call ALL STOP, COME ABOUT AND WARP US THE HELL OUT OF HERE. Troi was utterly useless, as it was not hard to determine Crazy!Picard's state of mind. Just look at the wild eyes! Apparently in the future we stop observing body language so the token hot chick can read minds instead?

Head straight into the vortex, yeah that made sense. Even Q couldn't have saved this ep, and knowing his flair for the dramatic, there's no way he could have done this without telling everyone on the ship (twice) that he was behind it.

Scifi needs to hurry up and get on to seasons 3 and 4, where we get some great characters and better executed plots

 

[RAMA]

I disliked this ep very strongly. I enjoyed the opening scene with Riker cooking because I thought, "hey finally some character development." But Riker made some silly, erroneous conclusions of logic--which Picard tragically heeded. The ship was in danger and Picard's ridiculous sense of curiosity (encouraged by Riker's shaky "you can't change the future" crap) overruled gut instinct to call ALL STOP, COME ABOUT AND WARP US THE HELL OUT OF HERE. Troi was utterly useless, as it was not hard to determine Crazy!Picard's state of mind. Just look at the wild eyes! Apparently in the future we stop observing body language so the token hot chick can read minds instead?

Head straight into the vortex, yeah that made sense. Even Q couldn't have saved this ep, and knowing his flair for the dramatic, there's no way he could have done this without telling everyone on the ship (twice) that he was behind it.

Scifi needs to hurry up and get on to seasons 3 and 4, where we get some great characters and better executed plots

When I first saw this episode years ago, I felt similarly to you. But because I felt that there should have been a distinct reason for the choice made, but it doesn't really matter, what matters is how Picard reacted.

First, they did try and leave the vortex area, AT WARP 9 no less, but to no avail. Questioning on whether they should actually leave though was a great character moment. Both RIker and Picard had to resist a well established curiosity for the unknown. It rings true.

Troi had some key pieces to the puzzle actually. The second Picard was NOT in fact crazy, just confused and effected by the time difference. It was Troi who realized that as they got closer to their time that things would become clearer.

And of course the finale....head into the vortex! But that's the most important thing about the episode. Its the toughest most important decision to make. Who would do it??? Its JUST the sort of test the unknown entity or even Q would have come up with. And if it was Q, the following episode could be considered his announcement...and what announcement it was!



RAMA

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

This is among, for me, one of the highlights of the second season. The concept was different from your usual Trek time-travel. The "timeline" wasn't at stake. Only our crew were in danger and they had six-hours before they met their "fate." And I prefer that the vortex and the other Picard weren't easily explained. It was one of the few TNG episodes that truly made the universe seem mysterious and ancient and full of wonder that was beyond our comprehension.

I do, however, think that the episode could've been tighter and that Troi could've played a larger role in helping Picard come to the decision to kill "himself."

 

[Doug Otte]

From the first time I saw it when it first aired to now, it's one of my favorite episodes. There isn't always an explanation for why things happen, and I like that they left it vague. As others here wrote, it was primarily a character episode, and showed a darker, more grim side to Picard. I think this was the first time that he was confronted with something so challenging to his self-perception, and he reacted in a way we hadn't seen before.

Doug

 

[WillsBabe]

I really like Times Squared. When I first saw it I thought that the Enterprise only got out of the situation because the phenomena had some sentience/consciousness. So it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to think that a thinking being such as Q could have been behind it. I haven't seen this episode in years so if the senticence thing is wrong, I apologise.

 

[Smiley]

I put "Time Squared" as one of the five best in Season Two. It's got character development, a fantastic hook, and a real sense of excitement and tension. I'm fine with not knowing what the anomaly was or the purpose behind it. I don't think Q or anything else would be satisfactory in the context of a 45-minute show. Looking at the broader Trek tapestry, the anomaly could well be one of the time anomalies that Trelane boasted about creating in Q-Squared.

 

[Pensive]

First, they did try and leave the vortex area, AT WARP 9 no less,

yeah, AFTER they were already stuck in it.

 

[Lilith]

I do, however, think that the episode could've been tighter and that Troi could've played a larger role in helping Picard come to the decision to kill "himself."

Unfortunately, that goes for pretty much the whole show. I rewatched Tin Man last night and there too Troi could've played a more significant (and sensible) part, but instead it went to Data. And frankly, Picard taking the advice of an emotionless Android over that of an experienced psychologist concerning mental matters still baffles me.

What this episode showed (at least to me) is that Troi had the basis to be an influencial and important part of the crew, but as in this episode, the writer's always stop her development a dollar short of actually happening.

I enjoyed this episode though, because it actually kept me guessing longer than most

 

[Lilith]

First, they did try and leave the vortex area, AT WARP 9 no less,

yeah, AFTER they were already stuck in it.

Yeah, one generally doesn't try to escape from something without first realizing they're stuck

 

[Pensive]

^ they had the shuttlepod recording of Enterprise being destroyed in the vortex, and headed TOWARDS it instead of away from it. They realized they would be facing that situation and went anyway. *slaps Riker*

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

I do, however, think that the episode could've been tighter and that Troi could've played a larger role in helping Picard come to the decision to kill "himself."

Unfortunately, that goes for pretty much the whole show. I rewatched Tin Man last night and there too Troi could've played a more significant (and sensible) part, but instead it went to Data. And frankly, Picard taking the advice of an emotionless Android over that of an experienced psychologist concerning mental matters still baffles me.

What this episode showed (at least to me) is that Troi had the basis to be an influencial and important part of the crew, but as in this episode, the writer's always stop her development a dollar short of actually happening.

I enjoyed this episode though, because it actually kept me guessing longer than most

Well put.

She could've been the strongest character on the ship, but they just kept pushing her into the background. I don' think the writers knew how to deal with her. Troi is extremely well-written in the Titan novels where she contributes a great deal.

I was lucky to obtain the early TNG VNR's sent out to all the news stations right before TNG aired. Troi's character, according to Marina Sirtus, was supposed to be the intellect of the crew. She even called herself the "Spock" of the show. The reasoning was that Betazoids had highly-developed brains for telepathy and thus were super smart. If that was the original plan, it was abandoned pretty quickly.

 

[DanCPA]

Having Q be responsible for this would give the episode a totally different spin, but I feel it would diminish the overall quality of the mission if the most important thing week after week is amusing Q

 

[Lilith]

^ they had the shuttlepod recording of Enterprise being destroyed in the vortex, and headed TOWARDS it instead of away from it. They realized they would be facing that situation and went anyway. *slaps Riker*

Ohhh, I wanna slap Riker too!

And yeah, I guess that is a bit, well, stupid, long live the importance of plotholes for the existence of any series

I do, however, think that the episode could've been tighter and that Troi could've played a larger role in helping Picard come to the decision to kill "himself."

Unfortunately, that goes for pretty much the whole show. I rewatched Tin Man last night and there too Troi could've played a more significant (and sensible) part, but instead it went to Data. And frankly, Picard taking the advice of an emotionless Android over that of an experienced psychologist concerning mental matters still baffles me.

What this episode showed (at least to me) is that Troi had the basis to be an influencial and important part of the crew, but as in this episode, the writer's always stop her development a dollar short of actually happening.

I enjoyed this episode though, because it actually kept me guessing longer than most

Well put.

She could've been the strongest character on the ship, but they just kept pushing her into the background. I don' think the writers knew how to deal with her. Troi is extremely well-written in the Titan novels where she contributes a great deal.

I was lucky to obtain the early TNG VNR's sent out to all the news stations right before TNG aired. Troi's character, according to Marina Sirtus, was supposed to be the intellect of the crew. She even called herself the "Spock" of the show. The reasoning was that Betazoids had highly-developed brains for telepathy and thus were super smart. If that was the original plan, it was abandoned pretty quickly.

Yes, I read that somewhere as well, quite frankly, I think it would've been awesome if they'd gone through with that. I guess we can't have a woman outsmart men in the 24th century

 

[Colonel Green]

^ they had the shuttlepod recording of Enterprise being destroyed in the vortex, and headed TOWARDS it instead of away from it. They realized they would be facing that situation and went anyway. *slaps Riker*

Ohhh, I wanna slap Riker too!

And yeah, I guess that is a bit, well, stupid, long live the importance of plotholes for the existence of any series

Unfortunately, that goes for pretty much the whole show. I rewatched Tin Man last night and there too Troi could've played a more significant (and sensible) part, but instead it went to Data. And frankly, Picard taking the advice of an emotionless Android over that of an experienced psychologist concerning mental matters still baffles me.

What this episode showed (at least to me) is that Troi had the basis to be an influencial and important part of the crew, but as in this episode, the writer's always stop her development a dollar short of actually happening.

I enjoyed this episode though, because it actually kept me guessing longer than most

Well put.

She could've been the strongest character on the ship, but they just kept pushing her into the background. I don' think the writers knew how to deal with her. Troi is extremely well-written in the Titan novels where she contributes a great deal.

I was lucky to obtain the early TNG VNR's sent out to all the news stations right before TNG aired. Troi's character, according to Marina Sirtus, was supposed to be the intellect of the crew. She even called herself the "Spock" of the show. The reasoning was that Betazoids had highly-developed brains for telepathy and thus were super smart. If that was the original plan, it was abandoned pretty quickly.

Yes, I read that somewhere as well, quite frankly, I think it would've been awesome if they'd gone through with that. I guess we can't have a woman outsmart men in the 24th century

More like we can have 20th century men WRITE a 24th century woman.

 

[jimbtnp2]

I do, however, think that the episode could've been tighter and that Troi could've played a larger role in helping Picard come to the decision to kill "himself."

Unfortunately, that goes for pretty much the whole show. I rewatched Tin Man last night and there too Troi could've played a more significant (and sensible) part, but instead it went to Data. And frankly, Picard taking the advice of an emotionless Android over that of an experienced psychologist concerning mental matters still baffles me.

What this episode showed (at least to me) is that Troi had the basis to be an influencial and important part of the crew, but as in this episode, the writer's always stop her development a dollar short of actually happening.

I enjoyed this episode though, because it actually kept me guessing longer than most

Tin Man is one of the all time best TNG as is

 

[shatastrophic]

I still find the shot of the D directly over the vortex and trying to get away great. I remember thinking it was one of the first real good fx shots of the D the series offered.

 

[Forbin]

Maybe it was the utter lack of an ending. I still feel an episode should have an ending. We left this episode with NO idea why all that stuff happened. I find that infuriating.