Time is not linear, so when did the TCW/TW really end?

[laibcoms]

Time is not linear, correct? So the question is, when did the Temporal Cold War / Temporal War really end?

"Reset" wouldn't fit because the Federation have records of it. The Federation and Suliban both know it happened.

The 31st Century also have records of it. One can say that they knew everything that happened re: TCW/TW from 26th to 30th Centuries, since they were their predecessors.

But when it ended, it ended in Earth's past, and all centuries were aware of it.

So again, relatively speaking, the future centuries (25th to 31st) should have records that it ended in the past. I'm supposing they were not allowed to look into TCW/TW records to ensure that what happened will happen?

Yet, we can't be sure the other factions would follow the same Temporal protocols, especially in the centuries before the 24th and 25th.

(sidenote: I hope DTI becomes a series )

 

[Christopher]

As far as linear history is concerned, the Temporal Cold War doesn't end. It just dies down after a certain time in a given "front" of the war (such as the 2150s), then picks up centuries later on another "front." It may have ended from the perspective of certain participants living in a certain time, but those participants have probably interacted with or traveled into future times.

And really, the whole reason for the TCW is the conflict between the Accordist factions that believe history should be preserved and the interventionist factions who believe it should be freely rewritten. So yeah, both sides might know how it's supposed to resolve, but the Anti-Accordist side would be trying to undo that resolution, while the Accordists would be trying to preserve it. Sort of like what you see in the current 12 Monkeys series, except that in that case we're supposed to root for the side trying to change things -- maybe -- and history might be immutable there anyway.

 

[laibcoms]

Oooh, I never thought to approach it that way. It's actually easier to understand linearly, to have died down and picked up again, and as a different front in the war.

Thanks for that! Much appreciated ^_^

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey.

(In a sense, a temporal war can't ever end - because some future faction could always start it up again, and in a sense, already has.)

 

[20fridge]

I think the only way to measure the temporal cold war's end accurately is from each character/faction's personal time line. Like "when did it end for Daniels?" or "when did it end for Dulmar/Luscley/the DTI?" or "when did it end for the Suliban?"

 

[laibcoms]

I used to envision it as being parallel to each other (the point of the TCW is the one point aligning each). Or criss-crossing each other (the TCW as the intersection). Or better yet, a circle, the circle being the TCW.

From there, anything "moving forward" is after the war. I like the "circle" best, would also explain why the grandfather paradox won't happen.

There's also another I'm thinking that has to do with ripples or waves. Since a ripple or wave cannot maintain its strength, it eventually dies out. So any changes in the past doesn't reach a certain future, so we don't get a grandfather paradox, it war still happens and the rest of it, before it was stopped in the past. And so on.

Until now. Hehe.

But true. It would be relative. I guess that's why some DTI agents quit, they try to imagine the bigger picture?

 

[hbquikcomjamesl]

Perhaps the Hobus Supernova that begat the Abramsverse was the result of a battle in the TCW.

 

[JD]

As far as linear history is concerned, the Temporal Cold War doesn't end. It just dies down after a certain time in a given "front" of the war (such as the 2150s), then picks up centuries later on another "front." It may have ended from the perspective of certain participants living in a certain time, but those participants have probably interacted with or traveled into future times.

And really, the whole reason for the TCW is the conflict between the Accordist factions that believe history should be preserved and the interventionist factions who believe it should be freely rewritten. So yeah, both sides might know how it's supposed to resolve, but the Anti-Accordist side would be trying to undo that resolution, while the Accordists would be trying to preserve it. Sort of like what you see in the current 12 Monkeys series, except that in that case we're supposed to root for the side trying to change things -- maybe -- and history might be immutable there anyway.

I might have misunderstood, but I was under the impression that Jamran Harnoth was pretty much responsible for the TCW. If so, wouldn't that mean that we most likely wouldn't see any factions native to a point after he was stopped? Couldn't you then say it stopped there?

 

[Christopher]

I might have misunderstood, but I was under the impression that Jamran Harnoth was pretty much responsible for the TCW. If so, wouldn't that mean that we most likely wouldn't see any factions native to a point after he was stopped? Couldn't you then say it stopped there?

He was responsible for his particular faction, but we saw other unrelated aggressor factions, namely the Sphere Builders and Vosk's group. The thing about time wars waged across the centuries is that different people's time wars would tend to overlap and get mixed together until it all blurs into a single whole. So there may well be factions from much further yet into the future.

 

[JD]

I see.

 

[Sci]

Maybe it's best not to conceive of the Temporal Cold War as even being a meaningful concept for the persons who are perpetuating the conflict from the far future, anymore than it's useful to conceive of "crime" as a single event that is distinguished from a normal event of lawfulness. Rather, just like, for our society at large, crime is a recurring phenomenon, and only the participants of particular instances of crime would have need to consider it in terms of being a particular event; for the participants from the far future, somebody is always (relatively-speaking) launching incursions downtime, and so the idea of the "Temporal Cold War" as a particular thing is only useful to those who get caught up in a particular downtime incursion or incursion(s).

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

For a transcript of this thread, send $2.99 to "What the hell are we talking about?"

 

[Kor]

This reminds me of my old argument that Kirk is still in the Nexus. I can't remember my reasoning, though. I would have to watch Generations again to think it through.

Kor

 

[Christopher]

Well, yes, since all times are one within the Nexus, that means that if you're in it at any time, you're in it at all times. That's why Guinan still has a "piece" of herself inside it.

Technically, the exact same thing would be true of anyone who's been in the "Prophetspace" of the Bajoran Wormhole, another timeless realm.

 

[Kor]

^ Yes, that was it! "Time has no meaning there."
Now I don't have to watch GEN again.

Kor

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I always thought the only reason Guinan was in the Nexus was that she was 'pulled...ripped away' by the transporter.