Through the looking Glass

[Infern0]

Just caught this episode and somehow ive never seen it before.

My first thoughts were..... TUVOK.

after that though, anyone find sisko "getting it on" with mirror Dax caused all kinds of ethical questions?

Can't imagine he'd be able to look at prime jadzia the same way.

 

[Terok Nor]

I always thought that. I know she's not the exact same person but she's close enough for it to be icky. There was never any hint of attraction from Sisko to Dax or vice versa. I'd love to know if Jadzia ever found out what Benjamin got up to with her doppelganger. And that's without bringing Curzon into the equation

Didn't he also sleep with The Intendant? That's a bit hmmmm also but she's so different to Kira I don't think it bothers me all that much. It's not like Kira and Sisko couldn't have got it on in our reality if they wished

Tuvok was exactly the same in both realities

 

[Armus]

Sisko really went for it in that episode, fooling everyone even though he seemed rightfully repelled by the Intendant. The things he had to do to be a hero...

 

[Bad Thoughts]

According to St. Gene, future humans don't have hangups about sex.

 

[kkt]

after that though, anyone find sisko "getting it on" with mirror Dax caused all kinds of ethical questions?

Can't imagine he'd be able to look at prime jadzia the same way.

Yes, and not just Sisko's relationship with prime Jadzia. Deceiptfully pretending to be someone else while having sex with them is a form of rape. DS9 is asking us to believe that rescuing mirror Jennifer so they might be able to save mirror Terrans justifies rape, which is deeply troubling.

According to St. Gene, future humans don't have hangups about sex.

Thinking rape is bad is a "hangup?" Okay, Gene, whatever.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Thinking rape is bad is a "hangup?" Okay, Gene, whatever.

Roddenberry did write a hero who imagined becoming a human trafficker, no?

 

[The Wormhole]

after that though, anyone find sisko "getting it on" with mirror Dax caused all kinds of ethical questions?

Meh, Mirror Jadzia punched him in Shattered Mirror for being misled, so it's not like he got away with anything.

 

[Infern0]

I always thought that. I know she's not the exact same person but she's close enough for it to be icky. There was never any hint of attraction from Sisko to Dax or vice versa. I'd love to know if Jadzia ever found out what Benjamin got up to with her doppelganger. And that's without bringing Curzon into the equation

Didn't he also sleep with The Intendant? That's a bit hmmmm also but she's so different to Kira I don't think it bothers me all that much. It's not like Kira and Sisko couldn't have got it on in our reality if they wished

Tuvok was exactly the same in both realities

Why was Tuvok there?

I was like hey cool we can see some cool stuff with mirror Tuvok and sisko but he didn't really do anything

I guess Tim Russ either directed or was hanging out near the set that day.

 

[tomalak301]

Just caught this episode and somehow ive never seen it before.

My first thoughts were..... TUVOK.

after that though, anyone find sisko "getting it on" with mirror Dax caused all kinds of ethical questions?

Can't imagine he'd be able to look at prime jadzia the same way.

It was all an act, and Sisko played it well. Besides what ethical questions? This was the same person who saw Jennifer really as his wife. Do you think Jadzia would feel the same way with Ben?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Roddenberry did write a hero who imagined becoming a human trafficker, no?

Not if you bring Enterprise into the situation.

Orion "Slavegirls" manipulate men biochemically into acting as their salesmen, to give them access to new men to control, like a virus.

The remnant desire to own an Orion Slave girl, and sell her to other men is a successful biological attack on Pike from a "Slavegirl" he had recently come into contact with.

It's a difficult psycho-sexual migration pattern, similar to a salmon swimming upstream to mate?

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Not if you bring Enterprise into the situation.

Orion "Slavegirls" manipulate men biochemically into acting as their salesmen, to give them access to new men to control, like a virus.

The remnant desire to own an Orion Slave girl, and sell her to other men is a successful biological attack on Pike from a "Slavegirl" he had recently come into contact with.

It's a difficult psycho-sexual migration pattern, similar to a salmon swimming upstream to mate?

Does Roddenberry deserve credit for what Enterprise retconned? Considering he wrote another episode in which Kirk took advantage of a trafficked woman, I wouldn't give Roddenberry the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Guy Gardener]

If his name is still on the credits (somewhere), then yes.

Obviously that also means that he should be dug up and skullfucked for A (Enterprise) A Night In Sickbay.

 

[Timo]

Yes, and not just Sisko's relationship with prime Jadzia. Deceiptfully pretending to be someone else while having sex with them is a form of rape. DS9 is asking us to believe that rescuing mirror Jennifer so they might be able to save mirror Terrans justifies rape, which is deeply troubling.

Sisko also gunned down a couple of Cardassians with a weapon that does not have nonlethal settings. Firing at people with weapons that make their guts fly out is a common means of waging war. So is raping. Why should we be bothered by the latter when we are not by the former?

(The answer: because it involves sex, and sex is a sexy topic. But while guns are sexy, flying guts are not sexy.)

It's not even a matter of priorities. It's just a matter of people not really giving a shit.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[eschaton]

DS9 had the best writer's room out of all the Trek series - certainly the most stable - but the lack of any women in the room led to some glaring omissions.

 

[Infern0]

DS9 had the best writer's room out of all the Trek series - certainly the most stable - but the lack of any women in the room led to some glaring omissions.

To be fair people just didn't think as deeply about what they put on screen back in the 90s either

 

[Armus]

An outside perspective is always a positive, and perhaps a woman on staff could have been a restraining influence on episodes like "Profit and Lace"?

 

[marsh8472]

Yeah he indulged himself in fantasy in that scene, maybe thought of someone else while he was doing what he did

 

[marsh8472]

They thought a hell of a lot MORE about what they put on screen, than now.

They think like that

 

[jaime]

An outside perspective is always a positive, and perhaps a woman on staff could have been a restraining influence on episodes like "Profit and Lace"?

Profit an Lace is a Shakespeare riff. Women on Staff would like that too.
I can also assure you that even now, people will laugh at ‘a man in a fecking dress’ as the popularity of Mrs. Browns boys will show you.
Not to mention the other ferengi episodes, and their various riffs and themes. The episode works because it’s Quark. Stick Rom in the dress, it wouldn’t have been made.
You can try to view it in isolation from other literature, or indeed away from DS9 and Trek, and then yes...it gets bad. But as part of an overall arc? After Quark fell in love with a cross dressing female ferengi a few years earlier etc? It’s not what it’s reputation seems to suggest.

 

[jaime]

DS9 had the best writer's room out of all the Trek series - certainly the most stable - but the lack of any women in the room led to some glaring omissions.

I would have liked better stuff for Keiko, but she’s a bit of a support player as the series goes on. Kira and Dax were both very well served by the writers though, I think. Nana is basically the co-lead on DS9, and often eclipses Avery.