Thoughts on the Borg Secret (SPOILERS!)

[rfmcdpei]

Reading the excellent A Singular Destiny, I was struck by the evidence that knowledge of the origins of the Borg in a catastrophic merger of temporally-displaced Caeliar survivors of Mantilis and Columbia crewpeople seems to be coming out.

I found two specific mentions. The first and more ambiguous is the mention, by the report of the head of the secret Borg technology research program to Scotty, of the difficulty of getting the technology to work without the "tyrant consciousness of the Caeliar." The second explicit mention was made by Aventine's Ensign Altoss when she was talking to Pran about the importance of the chain of command, when she cited the Borg's origins as an excellent demonstration of the need for crewpeople to follow the chain of command.

It doesn't look like knowledge of the Borg's origins are limited to uncinformed anecdotes. Rather, it seems that these anecdotes are being treated as entirely factual, more, than Ensign Altoss' knowledge suggests that it's becoming known more widely.

Thoughts as to the potential consequences? Things could get very nasty, as others have pointed out, as devastated worlds and species turn their resentful gaze onto the root beer-bearing humans.

 

[Paris]

Reading the excellent A Singular Destiny, I was struck by the evidence that knowledge of the origins of the Borg in a catastrophic merger of temporally-displaced Caeliar survivors of Mantilis and Columbia crewpeople seems to be coming out.

I found two specific mentions. The first and more ambiguous is the mention, by the report of the head of the secret Borg technology research program to Scotty, of the difficulty of getting the technology to work without the "tyrant consciousness of the Caeliar." The second explicit mention was made by Aventine's Ensign Altoss when she was talking to Pran about the importance of the chain of command, when she cited the Borg's origins as an excellent demonstration of the need for crewpeople to follow the chain of command.

It doesn't look like knowledge of the Borg's origins are limited to uncinformed anecdotes. Rather, it seems that these anecdotes are being treated as entirely factual, more, than Ensign Altoss' knowledge suggests that it's becoming known more widely.

Thoughts as to the potential consequences? Things could get very nasty, as others have pointed out, as devastated worlds and species turn their resentful gaze onto the root beer-bearing humans.

It seems that the only people in "the Know" are some Starfleet officers and high ranking Federation personel. Scotty knows due to his involvement with the Corps of Engineers, while Altoss knows as Altoss is an Aventine crew member, and the Aventine was on the front line when it came to the Caeliar in the Destiny trilogy. Pran is aloud to know as he was sent by the President and, I assume he has "code word clearance" when it comes to the recent events in the Treklit universe...

 

[Christopher]

It doesn't look like knowledge of the Borg's origins are limited to uncinformed anecdotes. Rather, it seems that these anecdotes are being treated as entirely factual, more, than Ensign Altoss' knowledge suggests that it's becoming known more widely.

Thoughts as to the potential consequences? Things could get very nasty, as others have pointed out, as devastated worlds and species turn their resentful gaze onto the root beer-bearing humans.

I don't think it makes any sense at all to assume that people would blame the human species for a tragic accident that befell a small number of humans. I mean, Adolf Hitler would never have been born unless his parents, who were cousins, had gotten a papal dispensation to marry, but I don't recall anyone blaming the Catholic Church for the Holocaust. Some have accused it of complicity in some aspects of it, maybe, but not direct culpability for Hitler's very existence. Because it would be ridiculous to blame someone so far removed on the chain of causation.

 

[Sci]

It doesn't look like knowledge of the Borg's origins are limited to uncinformed anecdotes. Rather, it seems that these anecdotes are being treated as entirely factual, more, than Ensign Altoss' knowledge suggests that it's becoming known more widely.

Thoughts as to the potential consequences? Things could get very nasty, as others have pointed out, as devastated worlds and species turn their resentful gaze onto the root beer-bearing humans.

I don't think it makes any sense at all to assume that people would blame the human species for a tragic accident that befell a small number of humans. I mean, Adolf Hitler would never have been born unless his parents, who were cousins, had gotten a papal dispensation to marry, but I don't recall anyone blaming the Catholic Church for the Holocaust. Some have accused it of complicity in some aspects of it, maybe, but not direct culpability for Hitler's very existence. Because it would be ridiculous to blame someone so far removed on the chain of causation.

Especially since Humans were just as much the targets of the Borg, and died in just as large of numbers, as any other species.

 

[Paris]

...Especially since Humans were just as much the targets of the Borg, and died in just as large of numbers, as any other species.

If not more so. Seemingly, the humans were #1 on the Borg hitlist for the Alpha Quadrant. Technically, the Federation is #1, but the Borg didn't travel back in time to fuck with the timelines of Tellar, Andor(ia), or Vulcan like they did with Earth in FC. Vulcan was tarnished in the Destiny attack, but I think more Humans were killed in total.

 

[Rat Boy]

It doesn't look like knowledge of the Borg's origins are limited to uncinformed anecdotes. Rather, it seems that these anecdotes are being treated as entirely factual, more, than Ensign Altoss' knowledge suggests that it's becoming known more widely.

Thoughts as to the potential consequences? Things could get very nasty, as others have pointed out, as devastated worlds and species turn their resentful gaze onto the root beer-bearing humans.

I don't think it makes any sense at all to assume that people would blame the human species for a tragic accident that befell a small number of humans.

Irrational persons, perhaps.

 

[Christopher]

Especially since Humans were just as much the targets of the Borg, and died in just as large of numbers, as any other species.

And even more especially since humans -- as part of Starfleet -- played a pivotal role in defeating the Borg once and for all.

Nobody's going to blame humanity for the existence of the Borg unless they already hated humanity to begin with. And nobody else is going to be swayed by their irrational accusations. So the revelation of the Borg's "secret origins" is not going to change the existing state of affairs. It won't make humans the pariahs of the galaxy all of a sudden.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Especially since Humans were just as much the targets of the Borg, and died in just as large of numbers, as any other species.

And even more especially since humans -- as part of Starfleet -- played a pivotal role in defeating the Borg once and for all.

Nobody's going to blame humanity for the existence of the Borg unless they already hated humanity to begin with. And nobody else is going to be swayed by their irrational accusations. So the revelation of the Borg's "secret origins" is not going to change the existing state of affairs. It won't make humans the pariahs of the galaxy all of a sudden.

Plus everybody is still busy rebuilding to worry about making anyone a pariah or anything.

 

[BryanSorensen]

I think that the point of the books were that humanity was a thorn in the borgs side because it was humanities arrogance(the team from Columbia and the Caeliar survivors) that made them possible in the first place..perhaps that one Caeliar that was buried deep beyond the queen felt humanity must pay somehow for their crimes against them. seems to me thats reasonable. The fact that humans were the only ones to ever truly stop the borg at more than one encounter only fueled their desire to see humanity pay

 

[justcorbly]

humanity was a thorn in the borgs side because it was humanities arrogance(the team from Columbia and the Caeliar survivors) that made them possible in the first place

I'd hafta do some re-reading to stand on firmer ground, but did the Borg, or the Borg queens, have any awareness of their origin?

BTW, I agree that rational species would not blame humans for the Borg. If they were inclined to blame anyone, they might blame the Caeliar, who could have just as easily merged with individuals from any humanoid species. It takes two to tango.

 

[Christopher]

I'd hafta do some re-reading to stand on firmer ground, but did the Borg, or the Borg queens, have any awareness of their origin?

No. All of Sedin's sapience was gone by the time what was left of her assimilated the surviving humans. All that was left was her raw instinct and hunger.

After all, if the Borg Queens knew they were descended from 22nd-century humans, then the Queen in First Contact would never have gone back in time to destroy Earth in the 21st century. I imagine she must've been surprised, in the timeline where she succeeded (the one briefly glimpsed by the E-E crew before following the Borg sphere back through time), to learn that by her actions she'd prevented the Borg from ever existing. She and the drones with her would've had to recreate the Collective all over again, and obviously they succeeded in assimilating Earth in that timeline. Still, it's pretty clear that the Queen had to be unaware of the human contribution to the Borg's origin.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

It doesn't look like knowledge of the Borg's origins are limited to uncinformed anecdotes. Rather, it seems that these anecdotes are being treated as entirely factual, more, than Ensign Altoss' knowledge suggests that it's becoming known more widely.

Thoughts as to the potential consequences? Things could get very nasty, as others have pointed out, as devastated worlds and species turn their resentful gaze onto the root beer-bearing humans.

I don't think it makes any sense at all to assume that people would blame the human species for a tragic accident that befell a small number of humans.

Irrational persons, perhaps.

Ah, yes. Therein lies the problem.

We all know that humans are not to blame for the Borg. That's what our minds tell us. It's the logical, sensible, rational thing to believe. But the problem is, what about those species that are NOT logical? Not sensible? IRrational? What happens when *they* find out, hmmmm?

And even some races that were, ordinarily, inclined to think rationally and sensibly: Some of them might have been the worst victims of the attack. How likely are they to think straight? Think of how you all feel when you've just been hurt badly. Don't you sometimes lash out in anger? Fury? Blind rage? Even when there's no logical REASON for you to do so? Now multiply that on a planetary scale.

 

[Christopher]

We all know that humans are not to blame for the Borg. That's what our minds tell us. It's the logical, sensible, rational thing to believe. But the problem is, what about those species that are NOT logical? Not sensible? IRrational? What happens when *they* find out, hmmmm?

I'm sorry -- species that are not rational? You're painting entire races as being intrinsically incapable of reason? "Species" are not monolithic entities that conform to facile stereotypes. They're made up of individuals with different personalities, values, beliefs, attitudes, and behaviors.

So we're not talking about "species" here. We're talking about individuals, groups, factions. And I've already answered the question of "what happens": absolutely nothing. Because any faction that would condemn humanity for their remote and unintentional connection to the Borg's origin would have to hate humanity already and would only use this as one more excuse for that pre-existing hatred. So it wouldn't make them any more likely to start a war than they were already.

And even some races that were, ordinarily, inclined to think rationally and sensibly: Some of them might have been the worst victims of the attack. How likely are they to think straight? Think of how you all feel when you've just been hurt badly. Don't you sometimes lash out in anger? Fury? Blind rage? Even when there's no logical REASON for you to do so? Now multiply that on a planetary scale.

Nothing's going to happen on a planetary scale. First, because it's ridiculous to treat an entire species as having a single state of mind. Second, because any planet that's been devastated on a global scale is simply not going to have the resources to strike out at anybody. At most you might have a few survivors making isolated attacks on human relief workers -- while other survivors would be immensely grateful for their help and would probably intervene to stop the attackers.

 

[BillJ]

All it would take is a leader with some charisma. Can't lash out at the Borg, they're gone. Can't lash out at the Caeliar, they've departed. Won't blame themselves for not taking the Borg more seriously. It leaves humanity, rational or not, as a potential target of anger.

While other worlds may not be able to lash out now... they'll be able to in time.

The fact that humanity was part of the creation of the Borg needs to be buried.

 

[Stephen!]

I wonder how Enterprise was actually planning to do a Borg Queen episode for Season 5, considering they wanted to have a Starfleet medical technician assimilated by the Borg, yet they all seemed to be destroyed by the end of "Regeneration" .....

 

[Christopher]

The fact that humanity was part of the creation of the Borg needs to be buried.

No, it doesn't, because it's a ridiculously tenuous link. Like I said, you could make a case that Pope Pius XII was responsible for Hitler's existence, but that hasn't led to massive wars against the Catholic Church.

Besides, you can't bury the truth, and attempts to do so ultimately do more harm than good. It's unreasonable to say that this historical truth should be hidden just because of some remote chance that some unlikely chain of events might lead some bunch of irrational people to do something destructive. It's overreacting to a very small risk.

I mean, heck, humans were indirectly responsible for V'Ger, but did the Klingons start a war over what it did to their ships? Vulcans were the parent race of the Romulans, but has anyone ever tried to invade Vulcan in retaliation for the Romulans' misdeeds?

 

[BillJ]

The fact that humanity was part of the creation of the Borg needs to be buried.

No, it doesn't, because it's a ridiculously tenuous link. Like I said, you could make a case that Pope Pius XII was responsible for Hitler's existence, but that hasn't led to massive wars against the Catholic Church.

Besides, you can't bury the truth, and attempts to do so ultimately do more harm than good. It's unreasonable to say that this historical truth should be hidden just because of some remote chance that some unlikely chain of events might lead some bunch of irrational people to do something destructive. It's overreacting to a very small risk.

I mean, heck, humans were indirectly responsible for V'Ger, but did the Klingons start a war over what it did to their ships? Vulcans were the parent race of the Romulans, but has anyone ever tried to invade Vulcan in retaliation for the Romulans' misdeeds?

Apples to oranges...

The Klingons lost three ships, Romulans have never been responsible for the deaths of sixty-three billion people. To the hungry and disillusioned masses (of the attack) it won't matter if it is by accident or not. It'll just depend it the right figure comes along to lead them down that path.

 

[Christopher]

^If, if, if. The meaningful question is, is it likely? What are the odds that some charismatic megalomaniac looking to start trouble would pick that particular issue to stir people up over? I mean, charismatic tyrants rarely rely on anything so complicated to win over the masses.

"Humanity is our enemy because they created the Borg!"

"Uhh, excuse me? The Borg existed thousands of years before humans went into space."

"But the humans went back in time!"

"Why would they do that?"

"Look, it was an accident! There was a Caeliar time vortex that went wrong."

"Who are the Caeliar?"

"They were a superpowerful race that joined with the humans to become the Borg."

"So isn't it the Caeliar we should hate?"

"No, dude, the humans are totally to blame because they sabotaged a Caeliar city and triggered the time vortex."

"Why did they do that?"

"Because the Caeliar were holding them prisoner!"

"So... again, doesn't that make it the Caeliar's fault?"

"The Caeliar aren't here anymore!"

It's too feeble. Too complicated to rationalize. Charismatic warmongers rely on Big Lie propaganda, and the first principle of that is to keep your rhetoric simple, to appeal to the lowest common denominator. You don't want some complex chain of causality that you need to explain in order to justify the conclusion that humanity is the enemy -- you want something simple and obvious, something the listener can pick up on right away and relate to viscerally. If you want them to hate humanity, you need to give them a more immediate, less complicated reason. Say, they're trying to take over the galaxy, or they spread disease, or whatever. Blaming humans for the Borg just doesn't cut it as a propaganda tool, because it's not straightforward enough. It's also hard to justify when the immediately evident fact is that humans played a key role in eradicating the Borg once and for all. That's the big headline, the sound bite that the listener can easily grasp. And that's going to be more effective for propaganda purposes than some convoluted history lesson that can, at best, only feebly implicate humanity in the Borg's distant origins.

 

[Strider]

I don't understand how the Borg didn't know more about their own origin. An entire Caeliar city-ship was crash landed on the Borg's apparent home world. The MACO's knew that before being assimilated, so the Borg would know that. I may be misremembering some passage from the book that clears this up.

 

[Christopher]

The Sedin remnant wasn't entirely sentient, and it assimilated the surviving humans as a desperation move. It probably hadn't yet worked out the details of how to preserve or extract its hosts' memories. The early Borg may have been running largely on instinct for a time.