Thoughts on STID

[Trekkin]

I think they were implying the opposite - Kirk's state of mind was affecting his physical health.

And before you say it, yes what is on screen can go either way.

 

[Franklin]

Nope, he apologises to the crew. After Marcus does the long winded equivalent of 'nyeh, nyeh, nyeh-nyeh nyeh' and cuts the transmission off, Kirk turns around and says 'I'm sorry' to the Bridge (and looking specifically at Spock).

The conversation with Marcus was him trying to convince Marcus that the crew were not a loose end that Marcus had to clean up - they didn't know about S31, and had no investment in protecting Khan. He was tying to spin that Marcus could get rid of him and Khan, and all Marcus problems would be over. His apology to the crew was acknowledging it was his decisions that put them in that position in the first place.

Nor was he apologising for doing the right thing - he was apologising for purposefully following orders that he knew were illegal (going to Kronos), knew could have consequences (starting an interstellar war), and that he knew that he should have considered further before accepting (Spock, Scotty and McCoy berating him before they left).

As far as fleshing things out goes, those two words, "I'm sorry," coming from a person that some who watched ST09 and STID described as an over-energized, self-involved frat boy is enough for me. Those are damn hard words for anyone to say, especially when it really could've gone unsaid. That was also the first time Kirk in his captaincy finally understood the weight and responsibilities of command. It's all on him. Even failure.

It just occurred to me that in TWOK Kirk pleads with Khan to take him but, "Spare my crew." I can't think of any other examples right now, but I think there were a few other times he made similar requests in TOS. Vaguely, I think Picard did it more than once in TNG, too, but again an example escapes me.

 

[BillJ]

It just occurred to me that in TWOK Kirk pleads with Khan to take him but, "Spare my crew." I can't think of any other examples right now, but I think there were a few other times he made similar requests in TOS. Vaguely, I think Picard did it more than once in TNG, too, but again an example escapes me.

I'm not sure, I can't really remember any instances. Closest I can come to is Picard begging Q to save them from the Borg in "Q, Who".

 

[Franklin]

It just occurred to me that in TWOK Kirk pleads with Khan to take him but, "Spare my crew." I can't think of any other examples right now, but I think there were a few other times he made similar requests in TOS. Vaguely, I think Picard did it more than once in TNG, too, but again an example escapes me.

I'm not sure, I can't really remember any instances. Closest I can come to is Picard begging Q to save them from the Borg in "Q, Who".

I know. It's just a feeling, and it's too vague a thing to Google.

It could be that the "spare them take me" kind of sacrificial offering is rather common in stories too, so my mind is just assuming it's happened a few times in Trek.

Edited to add: It could be more general incidents of sacrifice I was thinking of, too. Like Kirk being the one who said he would stay behind to operate the transporter in "Mirror Mirror" to save Uhura, Scotty, and McCoy.

 

[M'Sharak]

It just occurred to me that in TWOK Kirk pleads with Khan to take him but, "Spare my crew." I can't think of any other examples right now, but I think there were a few other times he made similar requests in TOS. Vaguely, I think Picard did it more than once in TNG, too, but again an example escapes me.

I'm not sure, I can't really remember any instances. Closest I can come to is Picard begging Q to save them from the Borg in "Q, Who".

I know. It's just a feeling, and it's too vague a thing to Google.

It could be that the "spare them take me" kind of sacrificial offering is rather common in stories too, so my mind is just assuming it's happened a few times in Trek.

It's common enough to have its own page at TV Tropes:

Take Me Instead

 

[YellowSubmarine]

- How did Scotty get a shuttlepod and fly it to Jupiter, and why did the baddies not notice him? If basic security is that bad, Marcus's scheme is doomed before it's begun. (Remember when Scott says "Are you Starfleet or private security?"; he was probably thinking "If you were Starfleet, you would have arrested me by now instead of making chit-chat, yer daft bugger.")

Social engineering is how. People - the worst form of security
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltrkCsy8Lzo[/yt]

 

[eyeresist]

This video raises a couple of other points, though I'd say a number of them can be written off as "movie magic".

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REOjxvQPQNQ#t=448[/yt]

 

[Trekkin]

Those are always fairly tongue-in-cheek and purposefully nitpicky for a laugh. Sometimes they even flat-out lie or are mistaken about the content to make sure they get a 'ding' for the right moment (for eg. apparently not seeing or ignoring that Khan actually opened his eyes when he was meant to be 'stunned' the first time). The better the movie, the more pedantic the points (like the video for Kingsmen.)

I preferred them when they used to be reasonably short like that one. I swear, their last one ( POTC3) was nearly 40-fucking-minutes minutes long! I could have just watched the movie myself and made notes.

 

[M'Sharak]

I preferred them when they used to be reasonably short like that one. I swear, their last one ( POTC3) was nearly 40-fucking-minutes minutes long! I could have just watched the movie myself and made notes.

I thought the best EWW vids were some of the earliest ones, where they kept it under four or five minutes. Once the running time started creeping past six or seven minutes, it was starting to feel like there was a lot of filler; the clips were dragging more and more, as the ratio of entertaining/on-point material to self-indulgent snark-noise dropped.

 

[Amaris]

I think they were implying the opposite - Kirk's state of mind was affecting his physical health.

And before you say it, yes what is on screen can go either way.

Yeah, for me, it was McCoy's concern over Jim's stress levels, and how it was affecting his body. That's how I've seen it from the first time up until the last time I watched it.

 

[Timo]

The Vengeance being a big secret is actually an assumption that need not be made. Yes, the desktop model is blatantly visible. And Marcus makes no secret that he intends to be ready when the Klingons come. For all we know, he has been building dozens of these things quite openly...

...Openly in the usual Starfleet need-to-know terms, that is. And Kirk didn't need to know. But anybody who did need to know would know, which is what would be assumed of anybody making a shipment to one of the dreadnought-class dockyards.

The ship wouldn't need to be a secret. Her mission to launch the war would, hence the mercenary crew. And Khan would be in on those aspects of Marcus' plan, and would point Kirk to the one dreadnought destined to perform the crucial below-the-counter mission at the start of the war, i.e. the mission where Marcus and his mercenaries would be aboard. Even in the slightly altered circumstances, Khan could bet on Marcus still using that particular dreadnought...

The alternative, that Marcus would launch the war with just one dreadnought, and with the newest flagship deliberately sacrificed to the cause, is less attractive.

Yeah, for me, it was McCoy's concern over Jim's stress levels, and how it was affecting his body. That's how I've seen it from the first time up until the last time I watched it.

Might even be McCoy flat out lying about Kirk's vitals, because he wants Kirk to stop the idiocy and pulling medical rank is his only way of doing that...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Amaris]

Good point. We've seen in the past (TOS, STIV, ST09) that McCoy isn't averse to a little medical skullduggery if it's going to save the lives of his friends, and everyone else in the process.