their inefficient use of their tech to wage war?

[Captain Triggered]

i'm thinking stuff like throwing 50 starships at wolf 359. surely with the tech available to them, they have better ways of waging war? even if it's just something crude like emptying out some ships, loading them with anti-matter or what have you, and warping them all into the cube? is there reasons they can only shoot small volleys of torpedos? energy expenditure? or more cores, more power to the shields? they seemed free to teleport to borg cubes, why not teleport planet cracking bombs? that kind of thing? even something just like the entire fleet empties their shuttle bays and warps them all into battle?

also, in one of the ds9 big battle scenes, they had to "break through lines"? that sounds cool and was fun, but does that seem likely given warp drive and the size of space? surely they could have warped around the scene? even a monsterous battle like 1000 ships vs 1000 ships seems unlikely to use that much interstellar real-estate? warp drive should definitely be the priority. speed seems like such a powerful advantage, for fight or flee.

also, did any of the series touch much on recreational medical tech? drug use? it seems unlikely as we start legalizing drugs, and even our crude pain killing medicine could be compared to literal happiness potions, albeit with the current massive downsides of street price and addiction. but i think they could do something about making withdrawals primitive. the physical ones at least. i just personally believe such a "utopian" society with replicators and much more freedom would see more people whittling away their increased life spans with that kind of thing. and how easy it was for them to clean up organ and such. not that opiates are very dangerous to organs. yes, i'm an opiate addict. of course it sparks my curiosity in other "realities". i have no moral or philosphical issue with addiction. i've beaten withdrawals, but only because it ruined me financially, which is their only real drawback. if anyone can take the time to chat on this sprawling mess, it'd amuse me!

 

[Mytran]

The battle scenes as presented in DS9 aren't really how a space battle would be waged though; realistically the ships would be thousands of kilometres apart, with hyperlight speed weapons arcing across the empty reaches of space...

 

[Ithekro]

And the "wall of ships" can warp to interdict your path. If you split up, and they outnumber you, they can intercept your smaller ships and destroy them at warp speeds, and still attempt to block you other ships, or out run the faster ships to take them out and double back for the slower ships, since there are still several hours worth of flight time to your destination even at maximum warp.

 

[Go-Captain]

You mean like attacking Borg cubes using antimatter stuffed Oberth-class ships equipped with a phase cloak?

I believe we have to take the seemingly silly limitations of application as necessities. If we don't accept the officers knowing what they are doing, then we have to see them as stupid, and the show just becomes frustrating. If torpedo tubes seem slow, maybe they're not.

If they have to "brake through" there, maybe there are good underlying reasons for doing so rather than just bypassing the fleet. I figure the Dominion wanted to fight away from DS9 to keep Starfleet from interfering with destroying the mines, and Starfleet wanted to fight the Dominion there so DS9 can't support the Dominion fleet. The "brake through" is in effect making sure no one will follow due already being a fur ball.

 

[publiusr]

And you can only get away with it once

 

[F. King Daniel]

As soon as their shields fail, start beaming enemy crew and huge chunks of important machinery into space.

 

[Arpy]

I don't think warp ramming works, or it'd be the main weapon in the Star Trek universe. Torpedoes travel at warp, but they're not bullets, they're antimatter bombs. Every planet would be a sitting duck to utter annihilation (more than it already is -- phasers and torpedoes alone can slag continents) if all you needed was one shuttle or torpedo traveling at warp...I was going to say 9.975 a la VOY, but warp 1 would probably do it...if all you needed was one torpedo, it wouldn't matter how good the planet's anti-weapon defense grid was, it would be toast. And at one point or another 80% of the planets out there would be targets by one faction or another, and the galaxy would be littered by half of them gone.

I like to think that the warp bubble collapses on contact with objects or large gravity wells (planets), unless everything's calibrated right -- to allow for shuttles docking at warp, and the like. So no definite annihilation if you ram another ship at warp. Riker would have rammed the cube in TBoBW, not to warp-annihilate, but to crash the bulk of the ship and detonate whatever antimatter onboard. He wanted to go to warp to do it to lessen the likelihood of the cube getting out of the way before collision.

Breaking through the lines is silly. It's a strategy that only makes sense if both sides line up like 18th Century armies choosing to pick each other off, waiting to see who's still alive when the ammo runs out.

Drugs of the distant future are probably perfect by our standards. A couple of pills gave that old lady in ST:IV a new kidney. A couple of injections could probably perfectly change your gender. Happy pills? Your downfall. The problem with opiates is that they ruin you, and it's the insurance money and medical expertise from everyone else that keeps you going. There were probably wholly different "drug wars" during Trek's WWIII era. What got them out of that was the promise of self-actualization. We're all mere mortals. The same chemicals in out blood can mess us up. But you find that some people are really happier than others. I imagine they wouldn't want to be overwhelmed by foreign chemicals, not because they wouldn't feel as good as they do to addicts, but because they'd be distracted from their self-actualization. The Federation is a place where we're taught and help each other to that. I'm sure the galaxy is littered by planets that died out "chasing the 'latinum' dragon" as well as by war and other means.

 

[Arpy]

The beaming thing makes no sense, as far as I can tell. You could try to argue that there are scattering fields employed in battle but people seem to beam in and out no problem.

If it were up to me, maybe I'd make up something like antimatter or radioactive material would send up warning flares in transport and be deflected, but I doubt that's going to get codified anywhere and it still doesn't address beaming the enemy bridge crew to space or beaming in a pipe bomb or beaming out ship parts... They should do a better job of considering how they want to fit this technology into their storytelling...and probably set some precedent with scattering fields.

 

[TommyR01D]

There was also the opening of Dark Frontier in which Harry Kim thought to beam a torpedo onto a Borg ship during a brief opening in their shields. This could have been done more often.

 

[B.J.]

I like to think that the warp bubble collapses on contact with objects or large gravity wells (planets), unless everything's calibrated right -- to allow for shuttles docking at warp, and the like. So no definite annihilation if you ram another ship at warp.

I've often thought this myself. Otherwise, even a tiny object at warp could really ruin a planet's day.

 

[JasonJ]

I've often thought this myself. Otherwise, even a tiny object at warp could really ruin a planet's day.

Even without a warp bubble/warp field in effect, an object the size of a starship crashing into a planets surface at even full impulse, which Memory Alpha states is between 1/4 the speed of light (167,000,000 mph) and 1/2 light-speed, would decimate the planet, killing millions or billions of inhabitants.

 

[Almael]

Even without a warp bubble/warp field in effect, an object the size of a starship crashing into a planets surface at even full impulse, which Memory Alpha states is between 1/4 the speed of light (167,000,000 mph) and 1/2 light-speed, would decimate the planet, killing millions or billions of inhabitants.

Nope. Without the field the mass reduction effect will be lost and the ship immediately gains its real mass back. The kinetic energy converted back would result in a much smaller velocity. So far mass change ranges up to 40, hence, a reduction to 1/1600.

 

[JasonJ]

Nope. Without the field the mass reduction effect will be lost and the ship immediately gains its real mass back. The kinetic energy converted back would result in a much smaller velocity. So far mass change ranges up to 40, hence, a reduction to 1/1600.

There is no warp field or mass reduction occurring under impulse.. the vessels real world mass is in play. An object with a mass of 1 Million gross tons like the Constitution class ship, travelling at anywhere near a fraction of c would be catastrophic upon striking a planetary surface. Your only hope is that it breaks up in the atmosphere upon re-entry.

 

[Mytran]

With the amount of fuel that Trek ships carry there would have to be a significant mass reduction field in place, even at Impulse. Otherwise the Enterprise would run out of fuel before it even reached Mars!

 

[JasonJ]

With the amount of fuel that Trek ships carry there would have to be a significant mass reduction field in place, even at Impulse. Otherwise the Enterprise would run out of fuel before it even reached Mars!

I don't recall any tech manuals or comments in canon stating as much for operation under impulse or thrusters... but I could haveemissed it.

Perhaps this is why Andromeda specifically stated that they have tech that reduces the mass of the entire ship to just 1kg at all times...

 

[Almael]

There is no warp field or mass reduction occurring under impulse..

Polish your knowledge.

I don't recall any tech manuals or comments in canon stating as much for operation under impulse or thrusters... but I could haveemissed it.

Did you really read them...

Star Trek TNG Technical Manual
p.75 Section 6.1

The propulsive force available from the highest
specific-impulse (isp) fusion engines available or projected fell
far short of being able to achieve the 10 km/sec2 acceleration
required. This necessitated the inclusion of a compact spacetime
driver coil, similar to those standard in warp engine
nacelles, that would perform a low-level continuum distortion
without driving the vehicle across the warp threshold.

p.77

Energy
from the accelerated plasma, when driven through the toroids,
creates the necessary combined field effect that (1) reduces
the apparent mass of the spacecraft at its inner surface, and
(2) facilitates the slippage of the continuum past the spacecraft
at its outer surface.

Star Trek TNG Season 3 Episode 13 Deja Q

00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:50,275
We could wrap a low-level warp field
around the moon

233
00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:54,154
to reduce its gravitational constant.
Make it easier to push.

 

[Almael]

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[JasonJ]

Polish your knowledge.


Did you really read them...

Star Trek TNG Technical Manual
p.75 Section 6.1

p.77


Star Trek TNG Season 3 Episode 13 Deja Q

Yeah, I did read them; but it was back when TNG was still airing new episodes.

Thanks for correcting me; I had missed those "facts". But you could do it with less attitude.

Not everyone has time (while at work no less) to research and pull excerpts from fictional engineering manuals; nor do we all retain this information in memory.

 

[Almael]

Attitude? I just stated an obvious deficiency.
It's been like 30 years, no matter how ignorant you may be this information is everywhere on all reputable trekkie sites.
Even if you missed TNG there's still DS9 & VOY. There are more but I won't bother.

DS9 Season 1 Episode 1&2 (yes the very first)

00:57:43,755 --> 00:57:48,635
Couldn't you modify the subspace field
output of the deflector generators

00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:52,138
to create a low-level field
around the station?

00:57:52,263 --> 00:57:54,641
To lower the inertial mass?

 

[JasonJ]

Attitude? I just stated an obvious deficiency.
It's been like 30 years, no matter how ignorant you may be this information is everywhere on all reputable trekkie sites.
Even if you missed TNG there's still DS9 & VOY. There are more but I won't bother.

DS9 Season 1 Episode 1&2 (yes the very first)

Sorry, it just seemed kinda "jerk-ish" when I read your reply. Yeah it may be all over the internet, but like I said, when I posted my comment it was 4pm on a Tuesday... So I was at work, there's a line between casual browsing a web forum and taking any time at all to search for that info on the internet.

Point made, there's mass reduction at play under impulse. Got it.