Nor did it work out for Nemesis. But, the reaction from the studio seems to be to not make another film, not explore other ideas.
The Wrath of Revenge
- Thread starter Laura Cynthia Chambers
- Start date
A big screen re-do of The Doomsday Machine could work. Open with the Constellation/Decker battling and losing to the DM using state of the art FX. Keep the DM a cone. Show the horror for the crew of the Constellation as their planet is destroyed. Establish an awesome star as Decker (any ideas?). Ramp up the stakes (have the DM get to and threaten the next solar system). Show Enterprise getting beat to hell under Decker. Bring in more space vessels from that system to help fight the DM (more of a distraction with little to no effect, though.) Big bang ending.
The only things I worry about is that the ending is too predictable, and the Decker character may over-shine the regular cast.
Russell Crowe.
Bryan Cranston?
ST: 2009 - Revenge.
ST: ID - Revenge at first, but as soon as Khan realizes his augment fellows are still alive his objective changes to liberating them.
ST: B - Not revenge. Krall thinks the Federation is weak and its primary idea - unity - sucks, so he intends to "restore" humanity to a state of struggle in order to to strenghten it.
ST: ID - Revenge at first, but as soon as Khan realizes his augment fellows are still alive his objective changes to liberating them.
ST: B - Not revenge. Krall thinks the Federation is weak and its primary idea - unity - sucks, so he intends to "restore" humanity to a state of struggle in order to to strenghten it.
They needed to flesh that out more.
Also in a discussion of cage v where no man as pilots for TOS, someone made a good point about Kirk being caught in a dilemma and having to choose to kill his best friend!
Gerrold in World of Star Trek said good drama needs to involve choice. STID did somewhat w Kirk choosing not to nuke the Klingons sight unseen. And yeah, Kahn switched to liberation, but to this observer the plot gets muddied.
Ive only watched STB once it so underwhelmed me, just seemed so set-piecy, but maybe Ill notice more Krall plot.
Also in a discussion of cage v where no man as pilots for TOS, someone made a good point about Kirk being caught in a dilemma and having to choose to kill his best friend!
Gerrold in World of Star Trek said good drama needs to involve choice. STID did somewhat w Kirk choosing not to nuke the Klingons sight unseen. And yeah, Kahn switched to liberation, but to this observer the plot gets muddied.
Ive only watched STB once it so underwhelmed me, just seemed so set-piecy, but maybe Ill notice more Krall plot.
I've saying this for years. Trek movies have been about guy's wanting revenge.
1996: Picard wants revenge against the Borg. Or the Borg want revenge for BOBW. Borg target the Enterprise and destroy the past and future. Insert Moby Dick Reference
1998: Ru'afo wants revenge against the Ba'ku. Tries to destroy the Enterprise and the unnamed planet. Add one super kill weapon
Insert ̶M̶u̶t̶a̶r̶a̶ ̶N̶e̶b̶u̶l̶a̶ Briar-Patch
2002 - Shinzon wants revenge against Picard. Tries to destroy the Enterprise and target Earth .Add one super kill weapon
Insert ̶M̶u̶t̶a̶r̶a̶ ̶N̶e̶b̶u̶l̶a̶ Bassen Rift.
2009: Nero wants revenge against Spock. Tries to destroy the Enterprise, destroys Vulcan and targets Earth.
Replace epic KHAAN scream, with obnoxious SPOCK scream. Add one super kill weapon.
2013: Khan wants revenge against Starfleet and Admiral Marcus. Tries to destroy the Enterprise. Targets San Francisco. Replace epic KHAAN scream, with obnoxious KHAAAN scream. Also, dial up those TWOK references.
2016: Kraal/Edison wants revenge against the Federation for going soft after the Xindi and Romulan wars. Destroys the Enterprise. Targets Yorktown. Add one super kill weapon. Insert ̶M̶u̶t̶a̶r̶a̶ ̶N̶e̶b̶u̶l̶a̶ Death Cloud Nebula.
Anyone get the feeling there were multiple attempts to recapture the lightning in a bottle that was Wrath of Khan?
1996: Picard wants revenge against the Borg. Or the Borg want revenge for BOBW. Borg target the Enterprise and destroy the past and future. Insert Moby Dick Reference
1998: Ru'afo wants revenge against the Ba'ku. Tries to destroy the Enterprise and the unnamed planet. Add one super kill weapon
Insert ̶M̶u̶t̶a̶r̶a̶ ̶N̶e̶b̶u̶l̶a̶ Briar-Patch
2002 - Shinzon wants revenge against Picard. Tries to destroy the Enterprise and target Earth .Add one super kill weapon
Insert ̶M̶u̶t̶a̶r̶a̶ ̶N̶e̶b̶u̶l̶a̶ Bassen Rift.
2009: Nero wants revenge against Spock. Tries to destroy the Enterprise, destroys Vulcan and targets Earth.
Replace epic KHAAN scream, with obnoxious SPOCK scream. Add one super kill weapon.
2013: Khan wants revenge against Starfleet and Admiral Marcus. Tries to destroy the Enterprise. Targets San Francisco. Replace epic KHAAN scream, with obnoxious KHAAAN scream. Also, dial up those TWOK references.
2016: Kraal/Edison wants revenge against the Federation for going soft after the Xindi and Romulan wars. Destroys the Enterprise. Targets Yorktown. Add one super kill weapon. Insert ̶M̶u̶t̶a̶r̶a̶ ̶N̶e̶b̶u̶l̶a̶ Death Cloud Nebula.
Anyone get the feeling there were multiple attempts to recapture the lightning in a bottle that was Wrath of Khan?
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I think that's self evident.
In TWOK, Khan has lost everything and wants to punish the person he feels is responsible. He's on a quest for revenge.
In FC the Borg still want to assimilate Earth, and the Borg queen wants to mate(or something) with Picard, but the Borg don't experience revenge or anger. They have lost nothing, and don't want to destroy anything. Picard becomes vengeful, but he wasn't on a quest for revenge. He was doing his job, and later trying to save his ship and it got really personal for him. He also repents and lets go of his hatred(and his ship). First Contact has a Moby Dick reference, and TWOK had a Moby Dick reference, but that's about where the similarities end.
TNG movies don't really fit the mold of TWoK revenge plot.
Ru'afo doesn't want revenge. He's dying and wants eternal youth. He's after the drug. He disdains the Baku, yes, but has no plans for revenge against them other than to steal their goods. Ru'afo has everything, except his youth. If his plan succeeds, he gets his youth back, and the Ba'ku go to live on some other paradise world where they live out their natural lives.
This might be the closest to a "revenge" plot, but Shinzon isn't out for revenge against Picard. He's curious about him, and uses him to get whatever codes he needed to attack the Federation. Shinzon even likes Picard. The people Shinzon hates the most are the Romulans, and he gets his revenge on them in the beginning of the movie. He's insane, also dying, and on a power trip. This movie does share the similarities of data's death and Spock's death.
Nero- lost everything and wants to punish the man responsible
Kraal- lost everything and wants to punish the organization responsible
.
A Trek movie about a desperate struggle to stop an unthinking, unfeeling abomination that only wants you dead and will not stop until the entire galaxy is reduced to rubble?
Yeah, I could get behind that.
We could still have conflict within the crew and with an expert about what to do and when. Or set the episode at the same time as a B-story important event is happening.
I think it would be amusing if the A story was some trite romance or something that would normally occur in a bottle episode, while the B story was some horrifying, galaxy-threatening revenge tale that was only touched on a few times during the whole movie or episode.
Kor
Kor
Pretty sure Enterprise did this once or twice. Hoshi trying to find out Malcolm's favourite cake took precedence over an alien marauder attacking and invading the Enterprise, for example. And this was one of the early episodes and one of humanity's first space conflicts and should have been a HUGE deal... *facepalm*
I thought all the moves they made towards trivializing the accomplishments of this first Enterprise through means such as "day in the life//disaster of the week" stories only made the entire series seem like a colossal misjudgement.
Maybe it's just me
That was THE episode when I finally quit ENT, after plenty of other frustrations with the show prior to that. The final facepalm.
I've always thought something inspired by The Doomsday Machine (key being, inspired by) has potential for big budget science fiction action, and that an antagonist per se is not a requirement for a Star Trek movie, but I suspect that 'giant mysterious alien being destroying everything in it's path, the Enterprise has to stop it' would elicit unfavourable comparisons in Joe/Jo Public's mind of it being V'Ger mark 2. Although the actual V'Ger mark 2, the whale probe from Star Trek IV, was in a movie that the public loved, so I guess if it were handled the right way then it could be done well.
The main problem is that movie execs are risk adverse, and The Wrath Of Khaaaaan so popular, that they basically won't risk it. Which seems stupid, because 'Villain Takes Revenge!!!' has now become a boring, predictable formula for Star Trek movies.
The main problem is that movie execs are risk adverse, and The Wrath Of Khaaaaan so popular, that they basically won't risk it. Which seems stupid, because 'Villain Takes Revenge!!!' has now become a boring, predictable formula for Star Trek movies.
I am kinda sick of revenge based villains.
I think either they should do a story without a villain or go with a villain with a non-revenge motive.
You can go with a sympathetic villain who does destructive things in service of what he or she thinks is a greater good.
If you want an unsympathetic villain, you can have a villain motivated by bigotry or greed, one who kills out of prejudice or to make a profit.
I think either they should do a story without a villain or go with a villain with a non-revenge motive.
You can go with a sympathetic villain who does destructive things in service of what he or she thinks is a greater good.
If you want an unsympathetic villain, you can have a villain motivated by bigotry or greed, one who kills out of prejudice or to make a profit.
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