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The Talos IV sky and Forbidden Planet

ATMachine

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Red Shirt
I recently tracked down a copy of the November 20, 1964, script for The Cage and found something interesting.

In this script the sky of Talos IV is described as a "weird violet sky" with "twin suns." (Shades of Star Wars... in 1964!)

Also, the planet surface exhibits "multi-hued jagged rocks" and "here and there orangish vegetation not too dissimilar from Earth desert plants."

The idea of Talos as a binary star system goes back to the first-draft script of The Cage, and is noted in Harvey Lynn's scientific commentary on the first draft, as reprinted in The Making of Star Trek. Also included in The Making is Roddenberry's response to Lynn, which includes this paragraph:

"Reference the binary sun, am a little at a loss here on exactly what it should look like. Maybe when we get together next you can sketch out what it would look like from the planet surface. Of course, if it is too bizarre or confusing to the audience, we'll probably have to go back to a single sun."

As actually constructed, the Talos IV surface set indeed dropped the binary-sun idea, and used a painted green sky backdrop (which was infamously hard to light, inspiring the use of colored-gel-filter lighting on the series proper) instead of the violet sky color originally envisioned.

(Plus, the planet surface as built prominently featured blue plants, not orange ones...)

Of course, what famous science fiction movie has a green sky on an alien world? That's right, Forbidden Planet. The Altair IV sky in that film also has two moons prominently visible, a very otherworldly feature which resembles Roddenberry's twin-sun idea.

The Forbidden Planet sky was described in the shooting script as a "startling but beautiful chartreuse color" (that is, yellowish-green in hue), and is shown as such in concept art for the movie showcased in Cinefantastique. Curiously, though, the film's novelization calls the sky "turquoise" instead, i.e., blue-green.

(Just for the record, said novelization also describes, in addition to the two moons noted above, the planet's "red sand," "weird stalagmitic spears of blue-grey rock which thrust up through the sand in haphazard clusters" and "ranges of jagged green-grey mountains." I think we can safely say all this is not present in the final film.)

The storyboards for Forbidden Planet, however, took a very different approach, indicating a blue-black sky with lots of large planets and other celestial bodies visible. (And not just in that one drawing--additional storyboards show lots of planets in the Altair IV sky.)

In other words... Altair IV was supposed to have something like the infamously erroneous Vulcan sky in the theatrical cut of TMP?

If Roddenberry indeed changed the color of the alien Talos IV sky to match that of Altair IV (heck, even the planet's numeral is the same!), he wouldn't be alone in paying homage to a classic SF film. An early Star Wars script draft suggests that George Lucas considered making the sky of Tatooine, with its binary sun, green like that of Forbidden Planet.
 
It's worth mentioning that in the diagram of the Talos IV star system shown on the overhead monitor on the bridge, the diagram shows twin suns at the center of the system:

6080271667_e8c473b14c.jpg
 
The cage feels like its in the same universe as forbidden planet.(sans ships of course)
 
Interesting that the binary star is seen on-screen in the Talos system diagram. So I guess it's canon after all!

Also, check out this post-production memo on visual effects reprinted in The Making of Star Trek, which indicates the change of the intended Talos IV sky color from violet to green. (The need for visual effects came in, of course, when the green-painted backdrop on set turned out to be so very problematic to light properly!)

"To: Those Concerned
From: Gene Roddenberry
Date: January 13, 1965
Subject: GREEN FILTERS

Just a reminder that during production when viewing dailies we decided with Darrell Anderson that scenes on the surface of Talos IV could safely be printed with a slight green filter--enough to get the sky green as planned without causing the skin to go green at all. Darrell Anderson already has experimented with this, and we selected a filter which seemed to do the job.

In fact, we thought we might vary the filter slightly in some long scenes where we are more conscious of the sky, thereby creating a green impression which will stay over the other scenes.

Just a reminder so that we can plan accordingly.

Gene Roddenberry"
 
It's worth mentioning that in the diagram of the Talos IV star system shown on the overhead monitor on the bridge, the diagram shows twin suns at the center of the system:

Well, I'll be frakked. 45 years and I can still occasionally be surprised. I don't know how many times I've seen that shot and never noticed that Talos was a binary.

Knowing it makes sense, though. Spock calls it "the Talos Star Group" -- and of course, we never see a "group." The closest is the previous shot, which is actually just the Pleiades.

A binary system could conceivably be a group, however. And all these years, I just thought that was bad science.

And of course, TrekCore has a nice Blu-Ray capture where the binary suns are plain as day ...

Dakota Smith
 
The cage feels like its in the same universe as forbidden planet.(sans ships of course)

I think that's partly the production design and partly the tone.

SF TV and movies in the 1950s and 1960s had a definite idea about how the future would look. This translates into things like smooth spacecraft, a certain look to the electronics and props, etc.

By the mid-60s, the notion of computers at least small enough to fit in a small spacecraft started to gain traction. The series reflects this, but "The Cage" is still designed a bit from the 1950s.

Of course, in real life, 23rd-century computers won't even be recognizable to someone born in the mid-20th century. But nobody knew that in the 1960s. ;)

The tone of both is also much like a "police procedural" drama a la Dragnet than the series proper. This is obvious in things like the scene on the bridge where Pike is getting info from his subordinates:

The Cage said:
TYLER: We've settled into orbit, sir.
GEOLOGIST: Geological lab report complete, Captain.
SPOCK: Preliminary lab survey ready, sir.
PIKE: Spectography?
GEOLOGIST: Our reading shows an oxygen nitrogen atmosphere, sir, heavy with inert elements but well within safety limits.
PIKE: Gravity?
GEOLOGIST: Zero point nine of Earth.

Very straightforward, matter-of-fact, unemotional, and business-like. Watch or listen to Dragnet and you can immediately see the similarities.

Dakota Smith
 
Meanwhile in another Universe...

Hm ... you might photoshop in Lt. Alden from WNM in place of Richard Anderson in the background. ;)

Note, too, that Anderson has a wireless earpiece visible in his right ear. He actually had one in each ear, but the similarity to Uhura's earpiece is unmistakable.

386-6604.jpg


Dakota Smith
 
It's worth mentioning that in the diagram of the Talos IV star system shown on the overhead monitor on the bridge, the diagram shows twin suns at the center of the system:

6080271667_e8c473b14c.jpg
If you look closely at this diagram, Talos IV is the planet with the really eccentric orbit compared to its neighboring inner satellites. I wonder why it's so out of balance.... maybe the Talosians' long-ago ecologically destructive war actually knocked the planet off its proper orbit?
 
The extent to which The Cage borrows from Forbidden Planet can't be overstated.

Line from Forbidden Planet (on the Bridge of the C57-D):

"Ship on course sir. We'll reach De-C point at 17:01..."

Now, what's the NCC registry number of the U.S.S. Enterprise in The Cage...? ;)
 
One can, for the sake of argument, come up with elements in a lot of skiffy movies and old TV shows that are similar enough to Star Trek to claim "oh, these ideas were common" - the kids in Tom Corbett, for example, were in a space service.

But the fact is that there is not in the history of movies or TV another show or movie that is so near to identical in tone and content to Star Trek as Forbidden Planet (before Trek's premiere, I mean. Lots has copied it since).

There are those two, nearly identical in many respects, and nothing else like them - lists of similar elements don't really prove anything.
 
One can, for the sake of argument, come up with elements in a lot of skiffy movies and old TV shows that are similar enough to Star Trek to claim "oh, these ideas were common" - the kids in Tom Corbett, for example, were in a space service.

But the fact is that there is not in the history of movies or TV another show or movie that is so near to identical in tone and content to Star Trek as Forbidden Planet (before Trek's premiere, I mean. Lots has copied it since).

There are those two, nearly identical in many respects, and nothing else like them - lists of similar elements don't really prove anything.
Agreed. Certainly as far as visual media goes, Forbidden Planet is the closest thing to early Star Trek there is.
 
It's worth mentioning that in the diagram of the Talos IV star system shown on the overhead monitor on the bridge, the diagram shows twin suns at the center of the system:

6080271667_e8c473b14c.jpg
If you look closely at this diagram, Talos IV is the planet with the really eccentric orbit compared to its neighboring inner satellites. I wonder why it's so out of balance.... maybe the Talosians' long-ago ecologically destructive war actually knocked the planet off its proper orbit?
Looking at Talos V, is that a moon or is the planet broken up? Looks like the latter to me.
 
It's worth mentioning that in the diagram of the Talos IV star system shown on the overhead monitor on the bridge, the diagram shows twin suns at the center of the system:

6080271667_e8c473b14c.jpg
If you look closely at this diagram, Talos IV is the planet with the really eccentric orbit compared to its neighboring inner satellites. I wonder why it's so out of balance.... maybe the Talosians' long-ago ecologically destructive war actually knocked the planet off its proper orbit?
Looking at Talos V, is that a moon or is the planet broken up? Looks like the latter to me.
The only thing next to the ball for planet 4 is a small #4...and its orbital arrow.
 
If you look closely at this diagram, Talos IV is the planet with the really eccentric orbit compared to its neighboring inner satellites. I wonder why it's so out of balance.... maybe the Talosians' long-ago ecologically destructive war actually knocked the planet off its proper orbit?
Looking at Talos V, is that a moon or is the planet broken up? Looks like the latter to me.
The only thing next to the ball for planet 4 is a small #4...and its orbital arrow.

He's talking about Talos v (5), isn't he? Talos V could have a moon, the picture is too small for me to make it out clearly which of Lieut. Arix's possibilities it could be.
 
The only thing next to the ball for planet 4 is a small #4...and its orbital arrow.

Trekcore has a nice Blu-Ray screencap where the diagram is as clear as it will ever be:

thecagehd0111.jpg


Looks like Talos III has a ring and Talos V has a moon.

Dakota Smith
 
Yes, looking at Talos V, it appears that it has a single moon orbiting it. Talos I and II and IV seem plain (aside from IV's weird orbit), Talos III seems to have rings, and Talos V has a moon. A blow up of the image seems to show a single spherical moon, not a bunch of rocky chunks:

6083856695_d2b0b584ca.jpg



It's worth mentioning that in the diagram of the Talos IV star system shown on the overhead monitor on the bridge, the diagram shows twin suns at the center of the system:

6080271667_e8c473b14c.jpg
If you look closely at this diagram, Talos IV is the planet with the really eccentric orbit compared to its neighboring inner satellites. I wonder why it's so out of balance.... maybe the Talosians' long-ago ecologically destructive war actually knocked the planet off its proper orbit?
Looking at Talos V, is that a moon or is the planet broken up? Looks like the latter to me.
 
perhaps talos V is more like an asteroid that never really managed to form as a planet not dis-similar to pluto?
 
One can, for the sake of argument, come up with elements in a lot of skiffy movies and old TV shows that are similar enough to Star Trek to claim "oh, these ideas were common" - the kids in Tom Corbett, for example, were in a space service.

But the fact is that there is not in the history of movies or TV another show or movie that is so near to identical in tone and content to Star Trek as Forbidden Planet (before Trek's premiere, I mean. Lots has copied it since).

There are those two, nearly identical in many respects, and nothing else like them - lists of similar elements don't really prove anything.
Agreed. Certainly as far as visual media goes, Forbidden Planet is the closest thing to early Star Trek there is.

Yeah, I should have specified that I meant they were unique only in the visual media. Forbidden Planet actually incorporates tropes about the future and space travel that had become widespread in pulp sf literature during the previous three decades: starships as naval vessels, interplanetary/interstellar governments and even FTL starflight itself to name a few examples.

Robbie's "basic inhibition against harming rational beings" isn't something you see much in earlier movies either, but it does sound very familiar. ;)
 
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